Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Brilliant thankyou both of you. Do you really think we stand a chance with this based on the lack of T&C's ?

The letter received today ( I will pick out bits and pieces ) says -

"We refer to the above matter and further to your Defence filed at Court and served on us. Having reviewed your Defence, we now note that he copies of the documents have been sent to you accordingly ( I only have the documents posted up here and mentioned in the defence, nothing has arrived since then ) . We have not received a response or an amended Defence ( I am unsure what they are awaiting a response or an amended defence to ) Ultimately, the contents of your Defence suggest that you have been unable to compile a Defence due to the documentation not being available. This has now been sent to you. Ourclients further notes that previously you had a payment arrangement towards this debt ( this was with MBNA and then continued for a few months with AK before taking advice on my previous thread ) , which further enforces our clients claim and your liability towards this debt . ( Does this really make any difference, we paid anyone who asked back then as we were in a pickle and only after calming down a few months later and having a breather did we question who we were actually paying )

Our client is confident in their prospects of succeeding should this matter proceed further down the legal route. In light of any further action taking place however, our client wishes to take a pragmatic view of this case and given the financial realities of pursuing the case further, our client wishes to make a settlement proposal to you in order to conclude these proceedings. Our client is willing to forgo any interest or costs in order to conclude these proceedings. Our client is willing to forgo any interest or costs on this claim in order to reach an amicable settlement. Our client wishes therefore to propose a full and final settlement figure of this debt for a sum of £1900 ( the court claim including interest and costs is £3281.00 ) .................................................. .................... IT then goes on to tell me what an amazing offer this and how amicable their proposal is. They also state they are willing to accept monthly installments and give me until the 28th August to finalise the case.

So do I ignore this, respond to them arguing again that I don't have the correct documentation or just follow it through and see if it gets to court and hope for the best ? I am concerned about going to court and the implications if we lose.
I am still irritated by the fact that their default notice that they sent wasn't even dated and I am sure they have just quickly typed this up a couple of weeks ago in desperation .

Thankyou both again !

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Brilliant thankyou both of you. Do you really think we stand a chance with this based on the lack of T&C's ?


The letter received today ( I will pick out bits and pieces ) says -


"We refer to the above matter and further to your Defence filed at Court and served on us. Having reviewed your Defence, we now note that he copies of the documents have been sent to you accordingly ( I only have the documents posted up here and mentioned in the defence, nothing has arrived since then ) . We have not received a response or an amended Defence ( I am unsure what they are awaiting a response or an amended defence to ) Ultimately, the contents of your Defence suggest that you have been unable to compile a Defence due to the documentation not being available.

They are referring to the following paragraphs in your defence, 14 in particular, which were left in from the generic defence used when no documents are provided.

11. The Parties agreed to an extension to the time period allowed for filing of my defence under CPR 15.5 to allow the Claimants additional time to produce the relevant documentation to evidence their claim, however they have failed to do so.
The Document provided is incomplete and does not contain ALL the T's & C's relevant at the inception of the agreement

12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

15. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

Went back to read the attachment in post 38 because you said previous ones referred to a separate account. The terms on that document are illegible but I don't think that was mentioned in your defence. From a s78 perspective, that could mean your request wasn't satisfied.

As as this is pre-April 2007, s.127(3) could still come into play but only if you were able to assert that the agreement you signed did not contain all the prescribed terms. That illegible copy isn't a very good indication of what was or wasn't there (unless your own isn't quite as bad). If the missing terms you say in point 11 above were not included when you signed the agreement the you could have an argument here but we need to know what those missing terms refer to. :confused2:

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Hi, JD

Have you posted a copy of the agreement here?
nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Hi, JD

Have you posted a copy of the agreement here?
nem

The documents are on post 38 as noted on my post from last night, re-quoted below:

They are referring to the following paragraphs in your defence, 14 in particular, which were left in from the generic defence used when no documents are provided.

Went back to read the attachment in post 38 because you said previous ones referred to a separate account. The terms on that document are illegible but I don't think that was mentioned in your defence. From a s78 perspective, that could mean your request wasn't satisfied.

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Hi both of you. Im getting a bit confused now. I thought that the defence that we sent was ok ?

Everything I have received from J&P is in Post 38 with the exception of an undated notice of assignment which I didnt post but did detail the contents in another post.

I have looked back on my previous thread which began in 2013 and after posting the same information ( this was originally sent to me by AK after a CCA request) i was told the following by Clever CLogs who I dont think posts on here anymore. -


It was not even a reconstituted "twue copy" of the executed agreement, but one side of a Virgin Money application form.
Section 3 - "key information" - is interesting, as 3b states "Details of other service charges are set out in section 4."

There is no section 4 in the document those numpties provided.

It is also illegible in places and, if for that reason alone, they have not complied with the s78 request.


If all that Activ Krapital has sent has been statements, odd information sheets and other, assorted tat, then it is axiomatic that they have not complied with your request made pursuant to section 78(1) (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as that krap would include neither the executed agreement nor a reconstituted, "twue copy" of the same.

Hence, s78(6) applies and Activ Krapital can get knotted.

Basically J&P have churned out the same info but also included a transaction log of payments sent to MBNA as well. On that basis and the advice received , we assumed that they had not provided everything that they should have and that this account was Unenforceable hopefully. Have we now done the wrong thing here ?

I am getting a bit worried about this now. Really sorry if I sound a bit vague, I have such alot going on right now which I have mentioned previously and I am finding it a bit diffuclt to take everything in and think clearly. Sorry.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Emm can't open them must be due to W10!

nem

[MIKE770]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

W10 o.k. to open on mine?

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Opens fine on a mac as well
Looking at the first attachment on post 28 section 3 refers to section 4, but there is no section 4 . I noticed this was picked up before.
Would it be correct to now say you wanted to ammend the defence as you have reviewed the documents provided and it fails under S78.

Just something to think about as I do not really know much about courts

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Hi both of you. Im getting a bit confused now. I thought that the defence that we sent was ok ?

Everything I have received from J&P is in Post 38 with the exception of an undated notice of assignment which I didnt post but did detail the contents in another post.

I have looked back on my previous thread which began in 2013 and after posting the same information ( this was originally sent to me by AK after a CCA request) i was told the following by Clever CLogs who I dont think posts on here anymore. -

Oh yes, now that you mention him, I remember Clever Clogs, I don't think he's been here since 2013! I remember the post below, only he would refer to a "twue copy". :lol:

It was not even a reconstituted "twue copy" of the executed agreement, but one side of a Virgin Money application form.
Section 3 - "key information" - is interesting, as 3b states "Details of other service charges are set out in section 4."

There is no section 4 in the document those numpties provided.

It is also illegible in places and, if for that reason alone, they have not complied with the s78 request.

If all that Activ Krapital has sent has been statements, odd information sheets and other, assorted tat, then it is axiomatic that they have not complied with your request made pursuant to section 78(1) (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as that krap would include neither the executed agreement nor a reconstituted, "twue copy" of the same.

Hence, s78(6) applies and Activ Krapital can get knotted.

That corresponds pretty much with my observations last night (albeit in a different tone), that s.78 wasn't complied with because they sent a) an illegible copy and b) it was incomplete. I don't think your defence made any mention of legibility.

Basically J&P have churned out the same info but also included a transaction log of payments sent to MBNA as well. On that basis and the advice received , we assumed that they had not provided everything that they should have and that this account was Unenforceable hopefully. Have we now done the wrong thing here ?

There is more than one way an account could be unenforceable, as I said above, if the missing term(s) (such as the seemingly elusive section 4) weren't there to start with, then the account could be unenforceable also under s.127(3). Obviously I don't know what was or wasn't there at the time and the copy supplied is not legible enough to even tell what terms are include on there so I'd say it also fails on the s.78 front.

I am getting a bit worried about this now. Really sorry if I sound a bit vague, I have such alot going on right now which I have mentioned previously and I am finding it a bit diffuclt to take everything in and think clearly. Sorry.

No worries, and there's no need to apologise, that's what we're here for. :thumb:

Opens fine on a mac as well
Looking at the first attachment on post 28 section 3 refers to section 4, but there is no section 4 . I noticed this was picked up before.
Would it be correct to now say you wanted to ammend the defence as you have reviewed the documents provided and it fails under S78.

Just something to think about as I do not really know much about courts

...and it could also fall under s.127(3) as noted above. The defence submitted has a paragraph reserving the right to amend at the claimant's expense if 'relevant documents' were received, however, if I got this right, no further documents have been supplied AFTER the defence was filed. It is possible to amend a defence but it would require an application.

[Kati]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

I have looked back on my previous thread which began in 2013 and after posting the same information ( this was originally sent to me by AK after a CCA request) i was told the following by Clever CLogs who I dont think posts on here anymore. -


It was not even a reconstituted "twue copy" of the executed agreement, but one side of a Virgin Money application form.
Section 3 - "key information" - is interesting, as 3b states "Details of other service charges are set out in section 4."

There is no section 4 in the document those numpties provided.

It is also illegible in places and, if for that reason alone, they have not complied with the s78 request.


If all that Activ Krapital has sent has been statements, odd information sheets and other, assorted tat, then it is axiomatic that they have not complied with your request made pursuant to section 78(1) (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as that krap would include neither the executed agreement nor a reconstituted, "twue copy" of the same.

Hence, s78(6) applies and Activ Krapital can get knotted.

Basically J&P have churned out the same info but also included a transaction log of payments sent to MBNA as well. On that basis and the advice received , we assumed that they had not provided everything that they should have and that this account was Unenforceable hopefully. Have we now done the wrong thing here ?

I am getting a bit worried about this now. Really sorry if I sound a bit vague, I have such alot going on right now which I have mentioned previously and I am finding it a bit diffuclt to take everything in and think clearly. Sorry.

this thread? http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...obal-help-plse

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

this thread? http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...obal-help-plse

I had forgotten about that one, I posted a lot on there! However, that doesn't seem to be the one with a copy of the documents or the post by Clever Clogs, there is a reference to another thread on the last post... :confused2:

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

It was this thread ( hopefully the link will work ) http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...x-2&highlight=

The thread was in relation to two ( then ) AK / MBNA debts. A higher amount and a lower amount. The one we are dealing with right now is the lower amount and I think it was usually referred to as MBNA 2 . There were documents posted on there in relation to a Platinum card ( that is for the higher debt ) and then Virgin documents ( the same as this thread) were also posted just afterwards I think.

Yes you helped me out loads on that thread FP.

Thankyou all for your replies above, I need to read them all properly when I get a second, but if I am right it seems to me that we may need to re submit our defence ? At the time I did ask if it was a bit too basic, and it seems that maybe it was ?

Really appreciate everyone's help here. Thankyou.

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Just a quick question. Even though it looks as though we possibly need to re submit our defence, do I assume that we still need to complete and send off the N180 form as mentioned a few posts above ? I need to get it in the post tomorrow so just double checking that I still go ahead with that. I'm sure that I do but don't want to make any mistakes here. Many Thanks

If anyone is free to advise on the claim as a whole and what I would need to include in the amended defence it would be much appreciated please. Unless of course it doesnt look like we have a defence after all now. Thankyou

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

Just a quick question. Even though it looks as though we possibly need to re submit our defence, do I assume that we still need to complete and send off the N180 form as mentioned a few posts above ? I need to get it in the post tomorrow so just double checking that I still go ahead with that. I'm sure that I do but don't want to make any mistakes here. Many Thanks

If anyone is free to advise on the claim as a whole and what I would need to include in the amended defence it would be much appreciated please. Unless of course it doesnt look like we have a defence after all now. Thankyou

Yes complete N180, and return as directed on the form.

nem

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Court Claim - PRA Group / MBNA - 28-5-2015

I had a case with these companies and they ended up discontinuing and paying my costs - although I did enlist the help of a legal person towards the end.

From memory the errors were - on the default notice it stated as per section 8 of the t&cs - and (after sending me the incorrect t&cs under CPR31.14) - section 8 did not refer to payments - it referred to charges ie, currency charges etc.

There was also a massive error in the chain of assignments - which their barrister tried to blag in court and the judge was not impressed!! Mine had been assigned to PRA Group after the claim had been started - they applied in court to have the creditor changed! Also, as I had read on the forum before - their MBNA witness failed to turn up at court to be questioned.

Good luck.

Foxy :tinysmile_twink_t2: