Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

[Amethyst]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Plus some stock they claim I had/have but I never had it!

That may complicate matters as if they feel you have stock of theirs they might counterclaim.

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

That may complicate matters as if they feel you have stock of theirs they might counterclaim.

Which is why I thought of only claiming the 27k that is the result of a clerical error.

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Okay you need to do a formal LBA to the directors of the company giving them 14 days to pay you - unless you have already done so ?

No not done one officially How does that impact on needing to get it into court ASAP regarding increased fees.
Then you can enter a county court claim. You may have legal insurance on your house insurance - you'd have to ask them the question if this would be covered. Costs would be against you if you lost. They could be substantial. You could limit your costs liability by making a part 36 offer to settle - but you'd need formal legal advice on that side of things.

[/QUOTE] A quick read on this seems a possibility...

You would have to (unless fee exempt - which is possible - see the EX160 form on HMCS website ) find the fee to issue the claim upfront. Fee's are rising on 9th March and after then it will be 5% of the claim value. BAsically it isn't something to do off the cuff as it is expensive to bring the claim initially and carries costs risks. I think it sensible to speak with your house insurance peeps about legal insurance and try and get some legal advice. Some firms will offer a free half hour consultation.

I actually paid 800 quid a a guy but he was talking about claiming over 100k called it a commercial agency agreement. and apparently that could cost up to 50k in fees..............scared me off somewhat.

The Ex160 is a one confusing document but it looks like I might be eligible for 50% off (after looking quickly) my pension is 1340 after tax and any other income is my wifes and is DLA and Attendance allowance etc etc.

[seduraed]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

I'm no expert in these things but if the Ł27k is owed for services I would issue copy invoices. Make these as clear as possible. Also get hold of copies of letters from our accountant. Remeber the judge knows nothing of the background so can only work on the papers given to him/her. follow the procedure outlined by amethyst . To get judgement there must be monetary loss. You should would write to them gain outlining the loss you have suffered and showing the accounting error clearly . Then if this is not paid you can move towards court action

[Amethyst]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

I actually paid 800 quid a a guy but he was talking about claiming over 100k called it a commercial agency agreement. and apparently that could cost up to 50k in fees

grrrr. What is wrong with people these days.

[Amethyst]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Which is why I thought of only claiming the 27k that is the result of a clerical error.

Is this sum undisputed ? and have they said they would pay it / agreed they owe you it ?

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Just to show what I have been up against. They took 9k from my commission and claimed it was me who employed him...BUT this was the message when we discussed things relating to it.


This is taken from Skype messages.

[21/09/2011 21:51:01] Andy Taylor: Has Lee spoken to you about what you are able to offer in wages etc as he need to know 100% so he can tell his uncle he is working for you.
[21/09/2011 21:51:36] Andy Taylor: Did the rollers work like he said they would??
[21/09/2011 21:52:57] Aliy: the roller is ok, does the work
[21/09/2011 21:53:18] Andy Taylor: He was going to have a chat with you but alwys busy and other were around allways.
[21/09/2011 21:53:32] Aliy: yes, isee
[21/09/2011 21:53:39] Andy Taylor: It should save more accidents like dans.
[21/09/2011 21:54:10] Andy Taylor: Able to move things round with out lifting. The DPD was impressed apparently.
[21/09/2011 21:54:48] Aliy: lee's salary for the beginning we decide Ł1800, and when we are doing well with the printers both of you two will increase as well
[21/09/2011 21:55:04] Aliy: yes, it is, we need to discuss for a while
[21/09/2011 21:55:53] Aliy: and for the salarys things don't tell to others.
[21/09/2011 21:56:39] Andy Taylor: I dont discuss my private business with anyone...lol
[21/09/2011 21:57:25] Aliy: yes. that's good. =)
[21/09/2011 21:57:49] Andy Taylor: I have been happy with 5.5% but realise some of the money has had to stay in the business to aid cash flow to be honest.
[21/09/2011 21:58:51] Andy Taylor: Its hard working 18 hours a day but things will now start to improve as we start to identify areas we can save money on and improve service to stop negative feedback etc etc
[21/09/2011 22:00:07] Andy Taylor: cutting down on mistakes and making sure we know what stock we are selling is way of saving money without spending any.
[21/09/2011 22:02:21] Andy Taylor: Also need to cut down on work for Q so she can look after babies.
[21/09/2011 22:04:44] Andy Taylor: I am just going to put jackie into bed now (which is easy as its on 6 feet away)

[Amethyst]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

So they employed Lee - did they pay his tax and Ni contributions ?

And you were simply on 5.5% commission of all sales - as self employed ? or employee ? Did you pay tax / NI etc ?

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Which is why I thought of only claiming the 27k that is the result of a clerical error.

No its not undistputed BUT they provided a spread sheet. This showed that money THREE times. Sold in ebay and received by paypal where all the money went into THEIR accounts. It showed up as owing to them by me TWICE. Very obvious to my accountant. THis is the most annoying part as their accountant MUST be able to see its a clerical mistake but he evaded speaking about it at all........

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

So they employed Lee - did they pay his tax and Ni contributions ?

No they said they were but after 4 months of asking for age slips they booted us both out.

And you were simply on 5.5% commission of all sales - as self employed ? or employee ? Did you pay tax / NI etc ?

I was on a self employed basis. i.e I pay my own tax on the profits I earned.

I was actually on 8% but at some time they changed it. And as i am not an unreasonable person I thought 5.5 was fair. BUT then they started to say websales I did not get commission . Strange thing was I did get the technical work and installation of drivers to do. lol Plus they tried saying I was over worked so that was why they got Lee to help me....problem was he had to work at THEIR premises, get there and leave there at a certain time. Do work THEY set for him. ROTFLMA

[Amethyst]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Okay so long as your self employment and income was declared and tax paid etc, and it was accounted for in benefits means tested etc, it should be fine.

How did it work calculation of your commission wise - was that all left to them to calculate and give you, or did you invoice them ? Or did you just sort it out yourself from paypal splitting the income after paypal fees (presumably) 94.5% to them 5.5% to you ?

They could be in problems for employing Lee if they weren't paying his tax/NI. Finding out more about that, and possible consequences of such, and nicely mentioning it might help them see the error in the spreadsheet and find a cheque book.

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

How did it work calculation of your commission wise - was that all left to them to calculate and give you, or did you invoice them ? Or did you just sort it out yourself from paypal splitting the income after paypal fees (presumably) 94.5% to them 5.5% to you ?

Well at the start it was easy with only a 2 or 3 machines a week at 200 quid I just sent the money less 5% to them. Them when money started to go direct to their bank I trusted them to create a spread sheet of sales as I had done to start with. It started to get weird when I would ask for commission and I would get replies like . "I will try and get it paid to you but we have many bills and stock to buy so we dont run out) which was true as i could never get them to stop listing even when out of stock and we started getting bad feedback which cost us 30% in ebay fees. I think thats the part that sticks in my craw is I saved them 30% (it not 30% anymore) in ebay fees and effectively paid my commission PLUS 25% approx. BUt it would seem they were calculating the figures on different ones to what they were sending me.....we only saw that when we had a settlement spread sheet as she had not sent me one for months.

They could be in problems for employing Lee if they weren't paying his tax/NI. Finding out more about that, and possible consequences of such, and nicely mentioning it might help them see the error in the spreadsheet and find a cheque book.

I have tried that but as they are chinese they dont think they WILL get caught and their accountant seems complicit... Its about getting a balance between blackmail and suggesting its in both our interests...to settle.

[wales01man]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Still not clear if you have a Paper trail of Invoices and statements detailing the amount you are owed might be difficult to convince a Judge that you are owed a Sum claimed.
Sorry to be so negative but unlike claims by DCAs and their Solicitors Judges will need some proof .
These people and their Accountants will no doubt fight this and as stated before Costs against you may rise.

A LBA setting out the Sums Owed and any others you may want to make for them to pay a reduced sum is a good idea.

Remember if you Highlight your claims they are avoiding paying VAT and Taxes it may come back to bite you if you were VAT registered a Question you have not answered..

[ukracer]

Re: Massive mess relating to commisssion , VAT and Claims in court.

Still not clear if you have a Paper trail of Invoices and statements detailing the amount you are owed might be difficult to convince a Judge that you are owed a Sum claimed.

Ok what I am struggling to work out is what is meant by invoices and statements. I have the spread sheets in excel provided by the chinese couple.

I have the paypal transactions showing the money going from paypal to their bank accounts. I have my bank account showing the commission I actually received.

I have emails stating the commission they wished to pay me.

I have a final spread sheet THEY provided that shows a discrepancy BUT crucially indicates a DOUBLE accounting error of approx 27k where they claim ALL sales via one of my ebay accounts as owing by me BUT they also show the money as being received in THEIR Bank account viapaypal.

The mistake she has made is accounting 27k worth of sales in an ebay account as owing by me .....BUT also showing the same amount as going to them from paypal. .........

ebay does not actually have money in it (only products) payments fromcustomers is via paypal or cash etc etc.

The ebay accounts were created by me prior to them being allowed to sell using them BUT the business details were their shipping/warehouse address in Birmingham. Including THEIR VAT number.

All stock and shipping imports and exports were made by them via that address well three addresses actually as they moved 3 times as they got bigger and carried more stock etc etc

Sorry to be so negative but unlike claims by DCAs and their Solicitors Judges will need some proof .

I would rather have negative and honesty and I am aware of the problems but already have hope with indications I might be able to pay half the fees and also protect against cost by a section order.

These people and their Accountants will no doubt fight this and as stated before Costs against you may rise.

I am banking on an accountant have to be honest with his clients...which appears to be a problem

A LBA setting out the Sums Owed and any others you may want to make for them to pay a reduced sum is a good idea.

Of course my bloody luck is that the charges go up on march 9th and i have taken a long time to save the 600 quid to be able to pay those fees as stated in the previous fees.

Remember if you Highlight your claims they are avoiding paying VAT and Taxes it may come back to bite you if you were VAT registered a Question you have not answered..

No I am not and never have been VAT registered . I did not sell personal to the public I merely rented my ebay shop out to them for 5.5% of the sales A point they concede although they do try and say some sales were not included.

This is also what has forced me to have to take action as i am being investigated for VAT libility. Initial discussion with the VAT people seems to indicate they agree with us that the only liability on VAt would be on the commission if it was above the VAT threshold. BUT one of the reasons for trying to take action now is I finally reached the goal of 600 quid to afford to pay the fees.