Shall I sue the HCEOs?

[anonymous coward]

Bizarre situation I'm in.

I got a High Court Writ which I instructed a HCEO group to execute. When the agent went to the defendant (used car dealer) on 25th November he didn't take control of any of the goods on the forecourt and just left a note with them asking the director to contact the office. They then recently told me it would be January before they could visit again despite me repeatedly telling them that the defendant was going to move his assets. They agreed to send someone yesterday when the company was packing up and moving out. The agent photographed the cars and took control of a few but didn't get the controlled goods agreement signed then left. Now the forecourt is empty and they've taken all their cars and hidden them.

My question is: what the actual F*** is the HCEO playing at? Why didn't they take control on 25th November??

I've written a strongly worded letter of complaint which effectively amounts to me saying, "Thanks very much, you've just naused up a year of my work to recover my debt you pack of idiots."

So does anyone know if I have any legal recourse here? Basically they haven't done their job and now it's going to be super hard to find the debtor.

Any advice? I'm totally flabbergasted by this.

[ploddertom]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Which firm did you use?

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Which firm did you use?

Sheriffs office. Already sent a long
letter of complaint. They've totally stuffed this up for me.

[ploddertom]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Surprised as they are one of the better firms doing this. Make a complaint by all means and address it to Mr Christopher Badger, Director of Enforcement but until you have done this do not try taking legal action as it could come back to bite you big style.

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Surprised as they are one of the better firms doing this. Make a complaint by all means and address it to Mr Christopher Badger, Director of Enforcement but until you have done this do not try taking legal action as it could come back to bite you big style.

Thanks. That's why I went with them. I've addressed my complaint to Russell ellacott. I believe chris badger deals with complaints through the HCEOA.

I have no intention of taking legal action yet. I was just wondering if there was anything I could do should I need to.

Like you I am shocked at how ineffective they have been given their reputation and the way they come across on the bbc show.

Anyway. Sale and service of goods act? Any ideas?

[ploddertom]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

I suggested Mr Badger as he is one of those at the top of the tree, HCEOA is a different entity altogether and you should not mix the 2 together - http://thesheriffsoffice.com/about_u...of_enforcement . You may find elsewhere he is referred to as user HCEOs on other forums, this is totally false as that is someone entirely different. Until you have been given an explanation as the why's & wherefore's it is hard to speculate on what to do next. I would hazard a guess it could be because your "target" was a used car dealer who are renowned for being slippery - many times they will provide paperwork claiming the cars are from customers and not their own - meaning seizure is awkward.

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Thanks for your reply. I think the biggest lesson I've learned in this is that if someone knows how to avoid they will avoid.

My real question is why did the HCEO not do anything on his first visit? Apparently one of the members of staff became aggressive and police had to be called who told the HCEO to come back another time. For some reason the HCEO agreed to and instead of seizing on paper just left a note for them to call the office. Basically he had the chance to seize a bunch of cars on paper but just didn't take it and then they were going to leave it nearly 8 weeks before going back in. That's my complaint. Even if he was slippery from then on I could just about take that but the fact that nothing was done on the first visit is unbelievable.

[Wombats]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

It sounds very odd. Post back the result of your complaint. As Ploddertom said, they are considered one of the better ones, very surprising. It strikes me as particularly odd that the HCEO went as far as calling the police, but then left.

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Thank you for your replies. I was perturbed when I read the first report but didn't make a fuss at that time because I assumed they knew what they were doing.

Then the debtor offered to pay in 2 x 50% instalments, the first of which in two weeks. I said OK if he pays something by 5pm the next day to show he intended to pay. He didn't so I wrote to the sheriffs and rung them to say do not listen to anything he says, he is stalling for time and speed is of the essence. This was at the beginning of December to which they said they would have someone there soon. I rang on the 19th to be told it would be the New Year. I said that wasn't good enough so they sent someone a few days later when he was packing the forecourt. The second officer reported thus

Bar across the entrance so no low loader could be brought in. Office looked empty but one person was there but said they didn't want to get involved. Got the director on the phone but he wouldn't deal with it. Officer listed some cars and took photos for DVLA checks. Left the controlled goods agreement unsigned (as far as I'm aware). Walked away.

So I don't understand why the officer didn't remove vehicles when he couldn't get the controlled goods agreement signed. As far as I'm aware a CGA is useless if it isn't signed by the debtor.

I understand the Sheriffs are good at this but in this case it seems they've been totally inept. I rang the office to ask why they didn't take control on 25th. After a bit of tooing and froing the woman on the end of the phone apologised and advised me to make a complaint.

Thanks for your time looking at this, any thoughts would be welcome.

[Milo]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

Then the debtor offered to pay in 2 x 50% instalments, the first of which in two weeks. I said OK if he pays something by 5pm the next day to show he intended to pay. He didn't so I wrote to the sheriffs and rung them to say do not listen to anything he says, he is stalling for time and speed is of the essence. This was at the beginning of December to which they said they would have someone there soon. I rang on the 19th to be told it would be the New Year. I said that wasn't good enough so they sent someone a few days later when he was packing the forecourt. The second officer reported thus

Bar across the entrance so no low loader could be brought in. Office looked empty but one person was there but said they didn't want to get involved. Got the director on the phone but he wouldn't deal with it. Officer listed some cars and took photos for DVLA checks. Left the controlled goods agreement unsigned (as far as I'm aware). Walked away.

So I don't understand why the officer didn't remove vehicles when he couldn't get the controlled goods agreement signed. As far as I'm aware a CGA is useless if it isn't signed by the debtor.

I understand the Sheriffs are good at this but in this case it seems they've been totally inept. I rang the office to ask why they didn't take control on 25th. After a bit of tooing and froing the woman on the end of the phone apologised and advised me to make a complaint.

You have not stated how much the Judgment was for that the Sheriffs Office are seeking to enforce.

There are a number of facts that you may be unaware of. Firstly, on 6th April 2014 new regulations came into effect that have significantly changed to way in which debts are enforced by bailiffs and High Court Enforcement Officers. The first important change is that an enforcement agent may only remove goods that actually belong to the debtor.

From what you have stated, cars were listed and the VRM's recorded. In most cases a DVLA check would reveal the identity of the keeper (not the owner) but with cars on a garage forecourt it is always the case that cars will have the previous keepers details still recorded so trying to establish ownership is not easy.

An important point in your favour is that in relation to a High Court writ of control, goods belonging to the debtor become 'bound' from the date that the writ of control is received by the enforcement agent, and accordingly, cannot be assigned, sold or transferred to another person.

PS: Given the difficulty in establishing 'ownership' the Sheriffs Office would come under intense critisism if they had of taken cars on a low loader. Also, as you have also confirmed, the officers were unable to gain access with a 'low loader'

I agree that Chris Badger should be able to deal with any complaint that you may have.

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

You have not stated how much the Judgment was for that the Sheriffs Office are seeking to enforce.

There are a number of facts that you may be unaware of. Firstly, on 6th April 2014 new regulations came into effect that have significantly changed to way in which debts are enforced by bailiffs and High Court Enforcement Officers. The first important change is that an enforcement agent may only remove goods that actually belong to the debtor.

From what you have stated, cars were listed and the VRM's recorded. In most cases a DVLA check would reveal the identity of the keeper (not the owner) but with cars on a garage forecourt it is always the case that cars will have the previous keepers details still recorded so trying to establish ownership is not easy.

An important point in your favour is that in relation to a High Court writ of control, goods belonging to the debtor become 'bound' from the date that the writ of control is received by the enforcement agent, and accordingly, cannot be assigned, sold or transferred to another person.

PS: Given the difficulty in establishing 'ownership' the Sheriffs Office would come under intense critisism if they had of taken cars on a low loader. Also, as you have also confirmed, the officers were unable to gain access with a 'low loader'

I agree that Chris Badger should be able to deal with any complaint that you may have.

Thanks milo that's useful. I'm aware of the April changes. The officer didn't conduct a diligent search for paperwork which he could have done.

[Milo]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

How much is the debt that the officer is seeking to enforce?

As I have mentioned above, if vehicles actually belong to the debtor then he cannot sell, transfer or assign them to anyone else as the goods became 'bound' from the date that the writ of control was received by the Sheriffs Office (which according to your posts was sometime in November).

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

How much is the debt that the officer is seeking to enforce?

As I have mentioned above, if vehicles actually belong to the debtor then he cannot sell, transfer or assign them to anyone else as the goods became 'bound' from the date that the writ of control was received by the Sheriffs Office (which according to your posts was sometime in November).

The debt is for 10k and rising by about £6 a day (various reasons). Do you have any links about what you said regarding the assets being under control from the date of the writ? I've never heard that before.

[Wombats]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

The debt is for 10k and rising by about £6 a day (various reasons). Do you have any links about what you said regarding the assets being under control from the date of the writ? I've never heard that before.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/15/schedule/12

Schedule 12 Part 2, 4(2)

It's actually from the time the writ is received by the person charged to enforce it as Milo said, not the date of the writ itself.

[anonymous coward]

Re: Shall I sue the HCEOs?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/15/schedule/12

Schedule 12 Part 2, 4(2)

It's actually from the time the writ is received by the person charged to enforce it as Milo said, not the date of the writ itself.

Interesting. So are you saying that they effectively already have control of goods from the moment the writ is received and they are under their control? The office has told me that if the cars do belong to the company then they will report the listed ones stolen. But I was under the impression that unless a CGA is signed then the goods are still under the control of the debtor and there is nothing the HCEO can do.