Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

[Danny Butts]

Hi All,

I work of a local authority as a highways maintenance supervisor.

We had a meeting earlier today on our departments reorganization and
It seems that they want us to take on the role of the lollypop persons supervisor.

Our line manager will take over the admin and management tasks, but we have been asked
to basically "spy" on the school crossing people and report back to the line manager.
When I say spy I mean it. It was suggested that every coupe of weeks we would "observe" a crossing
supervisor (?) and that this observation could take place from a distance if we wanted.

We should report back on issues such as "whether everything was working well"(they couldn't give more specific info)
but also appropriate dress, attitude towards children, parents and drivers. I personally feel really uncomfortable
with doing that.

The background is the post had been filled by a temp/consultant for its history
and the guy has been let go and the post deleted.

My colleagues and I are extremely experienced in highways maintenance issues, but none of us
has any experience or any interest in how a school crossing works. We supervise tarmac and flag stones not people!
So we believe that this work is outside our job spec.

However, we have been told that there is a new job description in the pipeline and we have obviously been offered "training".

The other worry is whether a criminal check would be needed, few of us have unblemished pasts but in applying
and being employed in our current roles, we have relied on the convictions being spent under 1974 rules as there would
be no need to worry about being around kids.

We have a meeting with our line manager on Monday to put a formal reply into the consultation process.
Our line manager says he is against the idea, however, "supervising" 13 new staff
means a promotion and a pay rise is on the cards for himmasdopey:

Any "awkward" points I could bring up at the meeting would be appreciated.

[teaboy2]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

Hi All,

I work of a local authority as a highways maintenance supervisor.

We had a meeting earlier today on our departments reorganization and
It seems that they want us to take on the role of the lollypop persons supervisor.

Our line manager will take over the admin and management tasks, but we have been asked
to basically "spy" on the school crossing people and report back to the line manager.
When I say spy I mean it. It was suggested that every coupe of weeks we would "observe" a crossing
supervisor (?) and that this observation could take place from a distance if we wanted.

We should report back on issues such as "whether everything was working well"(they couldn't give more specific info)
but also appropriate dress, attitude towards children, parents and drivers. I personally feel really uncomfortable
with doing that.

The background is the post had been filled by a temp/consultant for its history
and the guy has been let go and the post deleted.

My colleagues and I are extremely experienced in highways maintenance issues, but none of us
has any experience or any interest in how a school crossing works. We supervise tarmac and flag stones not people!
So we believe that this work is outside our job spec.

However, we have been told that there is a new job description in the pipeline and we have obviously been offered "training".

The other worry is whether a criminal check would be needed, few of us have unblemished pasts but in applying
and being employed in our current roles, we have relied on the convictions being spent under 1974 rules as there would
be no need to worry about being around kids.

We have a meeting with our line manager on Monday to put a formal reply into the consultation process.
Our line manager says he is against the idea, however, "supervising" 13 new staff
means a promotion and a pay rise is on the cards for himmasdopey:

Any "awkward" points I could bring up at the meeting would be appreciated.

In order for the employer to do this, they would have to add the new duties to your terms in your employment contract. To do this they need to put it in writing and have you sign a copy of same letter agreeing to the changes. Your well within your rights to refuse the changes and new duties by pointing out that the duties are clearly inconsistent with your overall role and current duties, not to mention you having no knowledge of what a lollipop persons duties are etc. And off course the CRB concerns you have!

[Danny Butts]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

In order for the employer to do this, they would have to add the new duties to your terms in your employment contract. To do this they need to put it in writing and have you sign a copy of same letter agreeing to the changes. Your well within your rights to refuse the changes and new duties by pointing out that the duties are clearly inconsistent with your overall role and current duties, not to mention you having no knowledge of what a lollipop persons duties are etc. And off course the CRB concerns you have!

Thanks Teaboy,

Is that the way it should be pushed then? that there is no understanding of what the new duties will be so we don't agree as we don't even know if they are consistent? they probably wont be but the management are being very vague about what these duties are.

BTW, I would have taken this up with the union but our xmas rota came out yesterday and all our full time reps managed to swing the whole of xmas off, coincidentally. We only have 4 weeks to respond although only 2 once you take the xmas holiday out, another coincidence.

The thing is the person who gets to consider these responses is the same person who suggested the change.

[teaboy2]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

They can not force you to do it, by adding extra duties to your job description they are varying the terms of your contract and they can not do that without your consent. Put in writing that you do not agree to the variation of terms to your employment contract in respect to the additional duties they have suggested you take on, whilst outlining your serious concerns about said duties to them. Also state that you will not reconsider until their has been full consultation over the matter, with your union!

Its irrelevant as to who is considering your response, as they have no way of forcing you to take on these duties.

I like you suspect its more than just coincidence as well, but more like planned timing!

[Danny Butts]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

They can not force you to do it, by adding extra duties to your job description they are varying the terms of your contract and they can not do that without your consent. Put in writing that you do not agree to the variation of terms to your employment contract in respect to the additional duties they have suggested you take on, whilst outlining your serious concerns about said duties to them. Also state that you will not reconsider until their has been full consultation over the matter, with your union!

Its irrelevant as to who is considering your response, as they have no way of forcing you to take on these duties.

I like you suspect its more than just coincidence as well, but more like planned timing!

Thanks again Teaboy.

I have spoken to the two other colleagues that are affected by the changes. The third is due back from planned sick leave on Monday.

The one who was throwing his toys out of the pram the most has actually changed the tune a little.
It seems his biggest complaint is that during the last reorganization 2 years ago (before I started), my peers were given the roles of a deleted job, but unlike other depts we didn't get a pay/grade rise for taking on the extra responsibilities.

Its just not fair!

He is hoping that by kicking off over this the council will be forced to reassess our positions and give us a pay rise.

I'm not so sure, as the added duties which are admittedly closer to our usual job, from the last reorganization were not actually added to the job description (which hasn't changed since 1989) so nobody knows in HR that we are doing this work. I'm pretty sure that these new duties will not be added either and we will be told "any other duties" and "watcha gonna do about it". So the chance of a pay rise is pretty slim, and there is also a chance we will be evaluated down in an assessment.

I'm also a bit annoyed with this particular co-worker as he called the meeting over the extra duties basically to stamp his feet and shout "we always get the dirty end of the stick, its not fair!".

Although unlike me, none of my colleagues is a member of the union, I asked if he had approached them during the last reorganization, to which he replied that there was no point as the union didn't do anything about the added duties. I repeated the question about whether they had spoken to the union on the specific point of added duties and again he said "no, but they should have known and did nothing"

So the union didn't know about the specifics of the last reorganization, but they should have risen up to fight them on behalf of the workers who didn't tell them.

Sheesh!

I'm annoyed as I have been in the job for only 18 months and I've put my head above the parapet with a director who is known for being a nasty grudge bearing piece of work (4 unfair dismissal/bullying/constructive dismissal cases in the last 2 years), for someone who has an understanding of the adult world of work that would embarrass an 8 year old!

What a cluster [expletive deleted]

However, I still think it may be possible to salvage something out of this in regard to our job descriptions.

I think it would be worth pushing for new job descriptions which include the duties from the last reorganization as they were actually done by someone a fair few grades above us, and trying to stop this stupid lollypop thing as it has no bearing on what we are contracted to do.

Any thoughts on strategy or encouragement/discouragement would be appreciated.

[teaboy2]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

When an employer refers to "any other duties" They are actually referring to the part of your contract that states upon reasonable request you may be asked to carrying out reasonable additional duties. Though its not specific as to what those duties are, the request has to be reasonable and those additional duties can not applied to you permanently i.e. they should be a one off request or temporarily measure.

The fact your being asked to carry out these duties, that fall significantly outside your usual duties of highway maintenance supervisor. Then they are in fact varying the terms and the duties of your contract and job discription. You are not a road safety supervisor, which is the role or equivalent to the person responsible for ensure road safety, who lollipop people would fall under! Nor are you trained in road safety.

If your not fussed about carrying out the extra role, if they gave you a pay increase, then simply point out to them that the duties do not fall in with your role of highway maintence, but fall under road safety to which you are not trained for. Also as such duties are not being requested of you as a per a reasonable request to carry out reasonably requested duties, which are temporary or one offs. Then the duties are being permanently added to your role as highway maintenance supervisor, which is not only a change in your job role/description but a clear additional term of your contract of employment. Point out to them that you are willing to take on the duties as a new term of your contract, on condition that you are given a pay rise, that you are presented with an updated written contract (which includes the new duties and pay rate) and that you are not to take on those duties until you have been fully trained or even qualified in road safety as per a road safety officer would be (who is usually responsible for such duties). Point out your more than willing to report how they are trying to pass road safety duties on to an person untrained in such matters to the health and safety inspectorate. Also point out that, should a accident occur, then they would be liable for failure in ensuring proper road safety by not having persons trained and qualified in road safety acting as the equivalent to a road safety officer.

[Danny Butts]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

When an employer refers to "any other duties" They are actually referring to the part of your contract that states upon reasonable request you may be asked to carrying out reasonable additional duties. Though its not specific as to what those duties are, the request has to be reasonable and those additional duties can not applied to you permanently i.e. they should be a one off request or temporarily measure.

The fact your being asked to carry out these duties, that fall significantly outside your usual duties of highway maintenance supervisor. Then they are in fact varying the terms and the duties of your contract and job discription. You are not a road safety supervisor, which is the role or equivalent to the person responsible for ensure road safety, who lollipop people would fall under! Nor are you trained in road safety.

If your not fussed about carrying out the extra role, if they gave you a pay increase, then simply point out to them that the duties do not fall in with your role of highway maintence, but fall under road safety to which you are not trained for. Also as such duties are not being requested of you as a per a reasonable request to carry out reasonably requested duties, which are temporary or one offs. Then the duties are being permanently added to your role as highway maintenance supervisor, which is not only a change in your job role/description but a clear additional term of your contract of employment. Point out to them that you are willing to take on the duties as a new term of your contract, on condition that you are given a pay rise, that you are presented with an updated written contract (which includes the new duties and pay rate) and that you are not to take on those duties until you have been fully trained or even qualified in road safety as per a road safety officer would be (who is usually responsible for such duties). Point out your more than willing to report how they are trying to pass road safety duties on to an person untrained in such matters to the health and safety inspectorate. Also point out that, should a accident occur, then they would be liable for failure in ensuring proper road safety by not having persons trained and qualified in road safety acting as the equivalent to a road safety officer.

Thanks again TB,

I can see where my management is going on this after doing some research on your mention of Road Safety Officer.

2 years ago they got rid of the engineer responsible for dropped kerbs and made my line manger the "responsible" engineer with the grade lift and pay rise . However, he never leaves the office.
We go out, assess the safety of the site, measure and mark up the position of the crossover , fill in the forms, produce the quote and supervise the operatives who build the vehicle crossover. However, our names never appear on anything as all the paperwork is handed to the line manager to "sign off"

Its a way for the director to reward one of his pet managers with the pay rise that goes with extra duties , without them needing to do the actual work. Its not the only example as we have only 1 streetworks supervisor but there are 3 people (temp consultants) inspecting the sites.

I can see that in this case any organisation flow diagram for road safety will stop with my manager, however it will be my colleagues and I who are actually doing the safety assessments, interviews with the crossing officers etc etc that we will then bring back for him to sign and cash in the pay rise.

Its now up to me to decide whether to bring the matter of the HSE up or to quietly concede , carry on keeping a daily diary of everything "iffy" I'm told to do (sign off a payment without inspecting the work, being told to ignore safety issues because of budget requirements etc) and now supervise crossing officers safety without being the "responsible person", and wait for the fan to get sticky.

TBH, I'm not sure whether I want to put my head above the parapet for colleagues who are so apathetic that they cant put in this kind of research themselves...even to ask people like your good self, and who wont join a union but would rather just call meetings so they can have a bitch for an hour (which was 50 minutes too long in my opinion). Particularly as I work in a poisonous environment for anyone thought to be making waves.

I think I might just ask vague questions about training in safety issues and who will be responsible for the actual safety of the children to get them prevaricating in writing, then just sit back and wait as the management have clearly gone too far on this occasion, and the information I've discovered about how the job *should* be managed and supervised will come in much more useful after the inevitable than before it.

[teaboy2]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

Thing is Danny - If the shit hits the fan, it won't be the desk jokey in the office that gets the blame, the skate goat will be you are you colleagues. So if i were in your shoes, i would refuse the new duties, and if they push it i'd threaten them with tribunal action. Yes you only been their what 18 months (i think that's what you said, without looking back through the thread). But you are asserting a statutory right to not have the terms of your contract varied, so the qualifying period for tribunal may not apply - Though that's only a may be i will need to double check it if things go down that route, which i doubt they will.

By the way if the council is breaching HSE rules and putting the public at risk, then that is a matter of public interest and if you choose to whistle blow, youd be protected from being dismissed as well, and qualifying period would not apply to you for taking dismissal for whistle blowing to tribunal, as its deemed automatic unfair dismissal!

[Danny Butts]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

Thing is Danny - If the shit hits the fan, it won't be the desk jokey in the office that gets the blame, the skate goat will be you are you colleagues. So if i were in your shoes, i would refuse the new duties, and if they push it i'd threaten them with tribunal action. Yes you only been their what 18 months (i think that's what you said, without looking back through the thread). But you are asserting a statutory right to not have the terms of your contract varied, so the qualifying period for tribunal may not apply - Though that's only a may be i will need to double check it if things go down that route, which i doubt they will.

By the way if the council is breaching HSE rules and putting the public at risk, then that is a matter of public interest and if you choose to whistle blow, youd be protected from being dismissed as well, and qualifying period would not apply to you for taking dismissal for whistle blowing to tribunal, as its deemed automatic unfair dismissal!

Hi TB,

First I'd like to say I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply, it has helped a great deal.

Basically I'm musing out loud at the moment.

I used to work for this borough about 5 years ago but left because my manager , now the director was such a crazy psycho. He would have complete screaming melt downs in the office threatening to sack all us "incompetent bastards". I only came back because I bumped into my old supervisor at a conference and he offered me my old job back, which meant a 5 minute rather than 1.5 hour commute. He explained that the old manager had been promoted and no longer had any over sight of staff (much to everyone's relief).
However, when ever someone tries to make waves all the managers circle wagons and they are quite prepared to lie to protect him. The last case being sexual harassment, where a woman manager went on record that she thought the complainant was a bit erm "loopy". Her job has been deleted in this reorganisation but another has been created on a higher grade and ...im sure you can guess.

OK, what I'm going to do is sound out the water. I will suggest to my manger that I'm not particularly fussed but if he means what he said, that he didn't want the extra responsibility himself, I have a way of torpedoing it below the water line and see how it plays.

[teaboy2]

Re: Duties of deleted job passed onto me and my collegues...Weird new duties.

Hi TB,

First I'd like to say I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply, it has helped a great deal.

Basically I'm musing out loud at the moment.

I used to work for this borough about 5 years ago but left because my manager , now the director was such a crazy psycho. He would have complete screaming melt downs in the office threatening to sack all us "incompetent bastards". I only came back because I bumped into my old supervisor at a conference and he offered me my old job back, which meant a 5 minute rather than 1.5 hour commute. He explained that the old manager had been promoted and no longer had any over sight of staff (much to everyone's relief).
However, when ever someone tries to make waves all the managers circle wagons and they are quite prepared to lie to protect him. The last case being sexual harassment, where a woman manager went on record that she thought the complainant was a bit erm "loopy". Her job has been deleted in this reorganisation but another has been created on a higher grade and ...im sure you can guess.

OK, what I'm going to do is sound out the water. I will suggest to my manger that I'm not particularly fussed but if he means what he said, that he didn't want the extra responsibility himself, I have a way of torpedoing it below the water line and see how it plays.

Ok Danny - Keep us updated on how things progress.