Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

**EXC** · 31st October 2014, 09:03:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Family law is something I know nothing about but I'll try and assist.

Have you spoken to social services since the idea of the father bringing up the child came about? If not I suggest you do.

Regardless I think it's crucial that you talk to a solicitor in the short and long term interests of yourself and the child. I don't know your financial circumstances but there are plenty of solicitors that will give you an initial consultation free of charge and I can suggest some if you wish.

**leclerc** · 31st October 2014, 09:07:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

I think you need to think very very carefully about this, although I suspect you already have judging from your post above. There are two ways of going about this but I would suggest that you both have a written agreement that will cover maintenance(money to bring the child up), contact(it is usually in the interests of the child to have contact with both parents) and any other matters relating to the child. The reason I am suggesting putting something in writing is that it is clear and unequivocal and should mean that there is no disagreements further down the line.

My personal opinion is that you should write down everything that is going on now which will be for your child at a future date undetermined because of the fact that they will ask in time why you chose to give them up/abandon them.

Good luck and I am sure others will offer further advice today.

**leclerc** · 31st October 2014, 09:32:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

There is a lot of case law relating to terminating parental responsibility of the father but not of the mother. The key Legislation is: The Children's Act 1989, Fostering and Adoption Act 2002 and worth a read of the Children and Families Act 2014 which relates to parental responsibility recently enacted.

The case law I found was this: http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed127998

Unfortunately it relates to fathers rather than mothers but the footnotes at the bottom of the link might prove useful. As EXC has said, it might be worth consulting a family law specialist even if for 30 minutes free consultation simply to ensure that all the legal safeguards are in place.

I remember my first driving instructor more or less stating that his mother had run off and left him as a child with his father. He seemed bitter about this so my reasoning for suggesting writing everything down today is that in the course of time, some of those reasons may not be remembered and that explaining to a child/adult why they were effectively given away to their father might be easier if something is kept with you with those reasons. I hope that makes sense.

**PAWS** · 31st October 2014, 09:53:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Darling EmmaP
Sorry I cannot give any useful legal advice.

You are being very honest and obviously have put what is best for the child first. It is very sensible to have all the legal stuff arranged and a plan in place before the baby is born but I would just advise you not to sign anything that makes any arrangements permanent until after the baby is born. Some women feel that the whole world has changed from the very second that baby enters the world. You may still want to stick to your plan which is absolutely fine but you may be surprised at how hard that is.
I do not know if this is your first child and I do not know your circumstances. I do know that there is nothing wrong with admitting you are not the best person to take care of a baby at this time in your life. It shows great courage and if I may say the sort of natural caring selflessness that is often lacking in many women consider themselves to be ‘text book’mothers.
:_tighthug__by_darkm

**EmmaP** · 31st October 2014, 10:18:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Thankyou everyone for your information and kind comments.

I didn't really want to go in to the reasons why I have came to this decision in fear of looking like I was trying to justify myself or causing moral arguments. The basic reasons why I am opting to give up custody is because I am mentally very unwell. I am also 18 (the father is 23), I have no family support, whilst I know its entirely possible to bring a child up at 18 with the benefits/housing that mums are entitled to, I do not want to, as horrible as that may sound I mean it in the nicest way. I decided not to get an abortion as I considered the adoption a lesser of two evils; I know that their are couples who would give anything to adopt a healthy newborn baby.

Originally the babies father wanted me to get an abortion, when I told him I was not going to get one he told me that was okay but he didn't want any involvement in the child's life as he wasn't ready. I accepted this reluctantly and withdraw from contact with him. I came to terms with the fact I neither wanted to or was capable of caring for the child which was hard but it was after thinking long and hard about it. I then contacted the adoption worker at my local government who told me I needed his permission. When asking for his permission I fully expected him to be indifferent about the situation, but surprisingly he felt really strongly about it. He said he knew people who had been adopted/fostered/in social care and that it had completely messed them up. He said he needed to talk to his mum, he then phoned me later and said his mum also wants the same and does not want the baby to be adopted so he wants to take full custody.

I said I wasn't sure and he said it was fine if I wasn't sure but he would take me to court. He made it clear that he doesn't mind if I keep the baby myself but he does mind if the baby is handed over to social care or adoptive parents. I told him that I am happy for him too take the baby after he is born PROVIDING I do not change my mind, he agreed with this and said it was fine. His family are going to be involved but I assume he will be the one with custody and just getting help from his parents in terms of care etc. If he expects his mum to have custody then they can sort that out between them after I have given him custody.

If at all possible I do not want courts/lawyers involved, this is because we are on good terms and he is being reasonable so I sort of feel like that we shouldn't waste the expense and stress and sort it out together if we can which I think we could as its all voluntary.

At the moment he would like me to totally give up my rights and not have any contact with him or the child again. I have told him I am not sure about this and he is suggesting I think about it and then put what I want forward to him. I do not know what I want yet, I would like some updates (like you get with adoption) even if that is just monthly message from him or his mum telling me that the babies okay with what hes got up too etc. When I give birth I may feel different and like I want weekend accsess (like most ex boyfriends/husbands have but vice versa in this case) but I do not know if he will agree to that.

My main question is if I was to want no contact could he literally take the baby from the hospital instead of me taking it? Or would it be more complex with social services involved and having to have permission from them? We live in two totally different towns (I live in Devon he lives in South London) so very far apart and we do not have the same local government midwifes etc and I know that midwifes visit after the baby is born which will be hard if he has the baby.

I have messaged the adoption worker and currently awaiting a response but hopefully she can guide me more.

**PAWS** · 31st October 2014, 10:36:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Jesus, I wish I had been as sane and sensible as you when I was 18!
As I said before, I am not well up on the legal side of things but do believe that if you are being so reasonable and sensible he would have an impossible time trying to convince a court you should not have any contact rights. Also, and again I am not completely sure but if he is named on the register as the baby’s father is a legal adoption necessary? Would it not be a simpler case where you give him custody? Also, as long as you do not sign anything or do not have any criminal issues that would make the authorities believe the baby was in danger, no one is going to swan into the hospital and walk away with your baby when it suits them.
When I was pregnant 30 years ago I saw it a lump that had to go so that I could get back to my life. I have no hesitation in saying that if abortion had not been illegal (rep. of Ireland) I would have gone for it. From the second that baby was born my life and feelings completely changed. I had to stick to the adoption plan and I am not sorry I did so but to say I felt unbearable pain is an understatement and that grief has stayed with me all mylife. It did however allow both of us to have a better life but I have missed out on a very precious experience and from the very little I know now it seems that despite having an idyllic life she has also felt a sense of loss.
What I am saying, in a very rambling way is do not commit to anything which you may later regret. AND this is about what is best for both you and the baby.I have no doubt that legally you could have a very valuable argument to renege on any promises made or documents signed while you were pregnant but that is a road to animosity and heartache. Make your plans and if, after the baby is born, you stick to that plan you are obviously aware you will not sail through the process with complete practical indifference. Whether you keep your baby or hand it over to dad is your decision and either way I am sure you will do what is best for you both. If you feel that anyone, at any time criticizes or judges you then they can go **** themselves.

**EXC** · 31st October 2014, 10:40:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

You don't have to explain the reasons for not wanting to keep the child. We're not judgmental.

Originally posted by EmmaP View Post

If at all possible I do not want courts/lawyers involved, this is because we are on good terms and he is being reasonable so I sort of feel like that we shouldn't waste the expense and stress and sort it out together if we can which I think we could as its all voluntary.

The reason for speaking to a solicitor wouldn't be any unreasonableness on the part of the father but to establish what your and the father's obligations are under the law as parents should you enter into an agreement between yourself and the father.

The potential for something to go wrong in the future could be significant and it would be in the interests of both of you to know where you stand if something unforeseen occurs.

**Kati** · 31st October 2014, 10:47:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Emma, I can offer no help or advice that will enable you to make a decision like this any easier :tinysmile_hmm_t2:
What I will do however, is suggest that you don't give up ALL your parental rights before this baby is born. Take all the time you need/want and don't allow yourself to be pushed into anything you might regret later on ...
Having a baby is scary (no matter if it's your first or your fifth) and pregnancy can make a woman feel less than sure of what she wants. Hormones play havoc with your body, leaving you unsure of even the simplest decisions (and giving your baby away, even to the father, is definitely not an easy choice at any time).

You have ten weeks, if not longer, to find out everything you need to know. Make the most of this time :tinysmile_grin_t:

Kati x

**PAWS** · 31st October 2014, 11:09:AM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

And, another thing! Are you looking after yourself? Have you got a decent GP? You sound like an intelligent person to me but your physical and mental state are paramount now.

reggers: Try and focus on that and although I know you want to have the feudal side sorted out do not be afraid to say you do not want to concentrate on that at the moment.
I appreciate your reluctance to be dependent on the state but have you spoken to anyone about anti natal care and financial entitlements? You can feel guilty later but you need to have enough in the coffers to ensure you are eating properly and have somewhere safe and comfortable to live. This is essential and make sure you can indulge any cravings!!! I had one for fried onions (killer for heartburn) that actually lasted for a couple of years. Great contraception after the birth actually as no one will come near you if you are farting like a dray horse! :yuck:
To me you come across as someone who is strong and selfless. God knows the world needs people like you in it so do not feel like you are a burden on the state as I am sure in the fullness of time you will repay any misplaced feeling of indebtedness. :thumb:
You have come to the right place:grouphug:. There is always someone on here at any time day or night when you need help and you can send me a personal message if there is anything you do not want anyone else to know.
xxxxxxxx

**leclerc** · 31st October 2014, 21:16:PM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

I just want to add what EXC has said above. Getting solicitors involved does not necessarily mean that you are in dispute, however, from reading your post, you are vulnerable and what you might agree to now might be something that, in say 5 or 10 years, that you may regret sincerely. What we have stated about taking legal advice is to ensure that you have been given the correct advice and know what to do so that both the child and your interests are protected.

We would hate to have you locked into something that you can never get out of. I want to make one small little observation which is kinda on and off the topic at hand. In adoption cases, there is something called "letterbox" contact where the mother or father or both write and can receive correspondent from the adopted child. However, there is no legal requirement for any correspondence to ever be passed on.

By all means keep everything civil but the reason we suggest a solicitor's advice is to ensure that you are not only protected today but also in the future.

**MissFM** · 31st October 2014, 21:33:PM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Hi EmmaP

,

Would firstly like to echo all the messages of support, good wishes and the wise counsel you have received so far.

I do want to add a note of caution and am sorry if it's unwelcome, but alarm bells are ringing here.

I don't think your baby's father has any automatic parental responsibility in the legal sense. That would only apply had you been married. Even if you choose to allow him that responsibility it doesn't give him the right to assume "ownership" of your child.

I do entreat you to ensure that he and his mother are subject to the same checks that would apply to any would-be adoptive parent so that your child is safeguarded (should you agree to them having custody).

Also:

My (serious) concerns are around the commitment this man has to fatherhood and his understanding of what it actually involves. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but

- he fathered a child with you when you "weren't together" and tried to get you to abort that child?

- you were not, and are not together?

- he now wishes to take the child after birth and for you to have no further contact (regardless of the interests of the child)?

Are you receiving active concrete support from him and his mother at the moment and have you received support from them throughout your pregnancy?

How well do you know him? How well do you know his mother - and have you actually discussed the upbringing of your child with her?

You say:

His mum feels really strongly about not giving the baby up too and has told him she will help him (the initial stages of a newborn, childcare when hes working etc)

but the commitment is not just during the "newborn" stage and babysitting. Unless they are prepared to welcome a total stranger into the family and subjugate their own comfort to his/her needs for the rest of his/her life (which is what parenthood is about) then they are not looking at this realistically.

Please, please do use all the relevant agencies and support networks available. If you do wish to allow the father to take this child then he must earn that privilege - he must be prepared and committed and there must be safeguards in place.

I also do beg you (as Paws has above) to accept help for yourself and to plug in to all the support available for a woman in your situation.

With my heartfelt good wishes to you all xx

http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/...onsibility.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/child-adoption/bi...ts-your-rights

(a couple of possibly useful links xx)

**leclerc** · 31st October 2014, 21:58:PM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

MissFM, I was going to correct you on automatic parental responsibility but having checked myself I would be wrong to correct you. He would, however, acquire parental responsibility under section 4 of the Children's Act 1989(either by his name being on the birth certificate, by a parental responsibility agreement or by the order of the court).

I would add that I think you are being a little harsh on a 23 year old's first reaction which is to suggest abortion considering that he might be a young single 23 year old, still finding his way in life. In regards to his mother, it may be that it is the first time he has ever had to have this discussion with his mother. We have no idea how difficult that conversation was or how difficult that scenario was.

I don't like the idea that he simply says that the mother has NO CONTACT with her child afterwards which I think we both picked up on in the post.

If the child were to live in another jurisdiction the social services from that area would need to be informed and would need to investigate the suitability of where the child would live, etc etc. I think I'd add that we have him saying what his mother told him and that it may not have been communicated to the OP as well as the mother herself.

Would it be better for a conversation between the mother and the OP? What does everyone think simply to clarify some of these points in relation to bringing up the child?

**MissFM** · 31st October 2014, 22:21:PM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Leclerc

I don't think it's being harsh to quote the facts as stated and was certainly not intending to pass judgment on the lad - just wondering whether his present desire to be a full-on father was grounded in realism.

I do agree with you that, if it's his mother that will be bringing up the child, she is the one that should be conversing with the OP now.

I also feel very strongly indeed that, if their aspirations are founded in reality, they should be supporting the OP in practical terms right now.

Emma has made it clear that she has no support network and although wise and intelligent beyond her years she is obviously vulnerable (including having mental health problems).

Goodness, she needs support right now. If they have a commitment to selfless parenthood then they do need to walk the walk. Before the baby is born.

**PAWS** · 31st October 2014, 23:28:PM

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

If the child were to live in another jurisdiction the socialservices from that area would need to be informed and would need to investigatethe suitability of where the child would live, etc etc.

EmmaP is in Devon and the Chap lives in London.

If dad’s name is on the Birth Certificate then he has certain obligations and therefore (surely?) legal rights. The point I am trying to make is that if the dad has custody with Emma's consent and she has the same contact rights as he would have if she keeps the baby then I do not know why anyone has to even bring up the word ‘adoption’. It sounded to me like the whole adoption issue was raised by the Dad and his Mum as a way of permanently excluding EmmaP from the baby’s (and their) lives.
Forget the whole idea of her being allowed to send letters etc. If she wants the same contact rights as she would grant him then she should be allowed them.
I would totally agree however that Emma should speak to someone to ensure the Chap and his Mother could provide a suitable environment and continuous care. If social services or whoever do not feel they are suitable guardians then they will be miffed but Emma may also be faced with making a very hard decision if this is the case and she feels she really cannot cope.
The one thing I think is essential is that although things can be discussed and conditional arrangements agreed, no decision should be made until after the baby is born and that Emma is not bullied by Casanova, his mother or social services.

Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

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