Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

[Donsetter]

:tinysmile_cry_t:
My son ( let’s call him Bart) is a drug addict, so is his partner of 10 year (let’s call her Marj).They have a Daughter of 17 months old, and Marj also as a 16 year old Son from a previous relationship. Social Services have gotten involved in their relationship because of domestic violence, their drug use, and having such a young Daughter (and rightly so).
Bart lives on his own in a rented house, Marj and the2 children live in another rented house. The 2 houses are in the same village. They say they love one another very much, and are together as a couple. But Marj’s 16 year Son hates Bart (with good reasons). Social Services have had meeting with Bart and Marj but are not happy with the current setup.They had a meeting with Marge and coerced her into taking out a Non Molestation Order against Bart, or if she did not they say, they may take the Daughter into care, so Marj complied with their demands.
Within a few days of the order being authorised by the court, Bart and Marj had one of their falling outs. Marj rang the Police, Bart was arrested and taken to court and sent to prison, he did 12 weeks inside for breach of the None Molestation Order.The 3 Magistrates also extend the period of the Non Molestation Order from 12 months to 24 Months, ending xxxxx 2016 , they also told Bart that if he is sent back to court again for another breach of the Non Molestation Order he will be looking at upto 5 years in prison.
On release from prison (a Friday) Bart returns home, the next day (Saturday ), Marj knocks on Barts door, enters and leaves a couple of hours later to fetch their baby Daughter,Marj stays all Saturday night, and go’s Home Sunday Morning.
I spoke to Bart and Marj about their current position, but find I know nothing about this law. Bart says he will commit suicide before going back to prison, just for loving each other, and them wanting to be together.
Any help/advice from legal / or people that have been in this same situation please. Don.

[dogtired]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

Will flag to bump up and ask someone who knows about this

[Wombats]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

An unusual source of information, but the forum is well respected and it is from people in the position of having non-molestation orders, some wanting to cancel them, some to vary them etc.... so may be helpful.

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/n...order-all.html

If you genuinely think your son may be at risk of suicide, you should phone 999 and inform the police. They act VERY quickly indeed and go and check on the person's welfare. Often they may call an ambulance and the person may either be taken for assessment voluntarily, or may be sectioned for their own protection under the Mental Health Act. Sections vary in length, though are usually put in place initially for just 72 hours.

[Amethyst]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

In additon to what Wombat has said, I would be advising your son to abide by the terms of the order and look forward to 2016 when it is lifted, and in the meantime get some assistance handling his addiction, and any violence/anger issues that may go with it that has bought about the order, so when it comes to the time they 'could' be a family, he is in a good place to start from. That's got to be better than going to prison for 5 years, and gives him something to work towards and look forward to. ' If they both continue to breach the order, then as well as imprisonment they could have their daughter removed from their care as well.

I think the Family Rights Group might be more suited to discussing the issue as they concentrate on family issues - www.frg.org.uk

[Crazy council]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

but if he has threatend that, but its only an expression of his anger, involving anyone else will go against him.

i understand the social services seem a bit hard, but, if he wants respect of the judge, and truly cares for his kids, he just needs to stop taking drugs. I doubt he wil get the order varied if he is still taking drugs. I feel sorry for you ( His mum i presume )

[Kati]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

Hi [MENTION=53664]Donsetter[/MENTION] .... you've been given some good advice already, but I thought I would pop on as well

You will find lots of advice on both the Netmums and FRG sites, but I would also suggest you look at the information on here:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/guidance_on_section_1_domestic_violence_crime_and_ victims_act_2004/

Section 1 of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 ('DVCVA') amended section 42A of the Family Law Act 1996 by creating a criminal offence of breach of a civil non-molestation order. These orders can be obtained under section 42(2) or section 45(1) (ex parte applications) Family Law Act 1996.This offence is triable either way with a maximum penalty on indictment of five years imprisonment, or a fine, or both. In the magistrates' court, the statutory maximum applies.
In addition section 4 of the DVCVA amended the definition in section 62(3) Family Law Act 1996 ('FLA') of 'associated person'. This provision permits a person who has not cohabitated with another but who has had "an intimate personal relationship... which is or was of significant duration" to apply for a non-molestation order. This means that if the order is subsequently breached, an offence under section 1of the DVCVA 2004 may have been committed. It is a matter for the court to decide whether the relationship has been of 'significant duration'.

I hope that your son and his partner get the help they need to cope with the situation. It would be better (as said previously) if they could work with Social Services and abide by the non-molestation order - but your son should also talk to someone about his suicidal feelings (if they were not just a 'heat of the moment' outburst. Two good sources of support there are MIND (http://www.mind.org.uk/information-s.../#.VC67eVJZ1ng) and the Samaritans (http://www.samaritans.org). You can also get more information from this site (http://www.helpguide.org/articles/su...d-feelings.htm):tinysmile_grin_t:

Please don't hesitate to come back here for help and support too!! :grouphug:

Kati xx

[Donsetter]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

Hi. Thanks to Wombats, Amethyst, Crazy Councils, and Dog Tired, also many others that I believe will respond to my thread.A little more information on Bart and his family, he is 33 year old and been on all kinds of drugs from the age of 15. He’s on benefits and do’s not work. He sees add -action on a regular weekly basis for his Methadone prescription. We his parents see Spodathe charity that provide great help to the families of drug addicts. Me is Dad am 67 year old, his Mam is 65 year old, worked all our lives, and never been on drugs.He has a Brother still living with us aged 28 year old not on any drugs and in full time work (talk about chalk and cheese).
A little more information on Marj, Barts partner . She left home at about 15 year old, abused by her Father, (now deceased) Mother got new partner moved up north started a new family.Marj is 35year old with the one Son 16 year old and one Daughter with Bart. Marj has been in a couple of abusive relationships in the past and on drugs and drink from 15 year of age, she also as mental problems and is being treated by her Doctor. Social Services are now heavily involved (good job they are).
The problem seems to be that Social Services seem very reluctant to work with Bart and Marj in trying to keep the family together as a unit, which is what Bart and Marj say they want. All Social Services seem to want is Bart out the picture altogether, and if that’s in prison for a year or more that fine with them.They knew that the N.M.O. would do that when they coerced Marj into taking it out, by threats of removing her Daughter if she stayed in a relationship with Bart. Is that not mental torture by the establishment. N.M.O take on a life of their own, they belong only to the court, and they now seem to be written in stone along with the 10 commandments. What Social Services say carries where a N.M.O is concerned.
When will the courts and Social Services realise they are not Gods, and that they are, or should be working with the people, and giving them the help they request and need to make their relationships work.
Again thanks of the forums help and advice, which I have taken onboard.Don.

[Crazy council]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

hi

Its very hard to get social services to back down, and in some cases, rightly. The best approach would be if they both ( bart + Marge ) get a solicitor to represent them both, maybe CAB will help with a local one. He could, if appropriate, apply to dismiss or vary the order, thats probably the best approach

All SS departments are going to be super carfull at the mo due to them being dragged through the press recently, In these type things your usually being dealt with by the http://www.safenetwork.org.uk/traini...ges/lscbs.aspx , over the child. Its a sort of group dissension usually.

Would bart or marg consider rehab

[righty]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

OP its not just about that they love for each other, its about the children. It does appear from the brief information you have provided that the taking of drugs has made both of them unpredictable AND violent. If they don't try to reform by seeking help then its almost certain that he will end up in goal for a very long time AND the kids will be taken into care (God forbid)

If they do love the kids which I doubt (they are just going along with the gag) then they have to put them 1st rather than themselves in their continous pursuit of drugs.

[Wombats]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

OP its not just about that they love for each other, its about the children. It does appear from the brief information you have provided that the taking of drugs has made both of them unpredictable AND violent. If they don't try to reform by seeking help then its almost certain that he will end up in goal for a very long time AND the kids will be taken into care (God forbid)

If they do love the kids which I doubt (they are just going along with the gag) then they have to put them 1st rather than themselves in their continous pursuit of drugs.

Indeed, the interest of Social Services will be the welfare of the children. I would echo Rghty's view that they must reform if they are to stand any chance of remaining together with the children as a family. Currently your son is clearly not a fit person to be a father to their 17 month old daughter, and the mother is clearly going to struggle to give your grandchild what she needs.

Do you mind me asking whether you are asking just to find out about NMO's, or do you have opinions about what should happen as grandparents? I ask as my wife's niece is fighting a battle at the moment to keep her four children in far, far easier circumstances than this. They were placed with the grandparents full time for a while, with the grandparents being around 60ish in age. I hope you don't mind me asking, and don't feel obliged to answer.

Long term it is crucial bother of your grand-daughter's parents overcome their addictions and I wish them all the strength in the world to do this, for they will need to find a lot of strength to succeed.

[righty]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

I also forgot to add that I DO wish them & the children well

[Donsetter]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

Hi Wombats.
You ask is it just a question of the N.M.O, or do I have an opinion as a Grandparent. The answer to that is twofold, regarding the N.M.O. I understand Social Services stand point, they have come under a lot of fire over the past years regarding, a so called light touch, and C.E.Os on big pay refusing to quit when the crap hits the fan, see Crazy Councils thread. I note Crazy Councils abbreviated Social Services to SS, maybe they have moved from the light touch, to the Heavy Jack Boot stance. SS must remember they are dealing with human traits and emotions, the word love can never be quantified or truly explained, not by courts, prison, or government bodies.
Bart and Marj have both been told by me and by numerous other people about Rehab and counselling, or just to stop taking drugs, ask someone who only smokes how easy that is.Funding for places on rehab, or waiting lists for counselling are not easy to get with all the Government cut backs, believe me I have looked into this with Spoda and other organizations.
So to conclude this thread, I say, all I want for my Son, his Partner and our Grand Daughter is a good, peaceful and happy life, free of drugs and stress. Which is what I would wish anyone.
Again thanks for the forums help and advice, DON.

A blacksmith once said to me:- Some people are born to be hammers, and some are born to to be anvils.

[QUOTE=Wombats;476948]Indeed, the interest of Social Services will be the welfare of the children. I would echo Rghty's view that they must reform if they are to stand any chance of remaining together with the children as a family. Currently your son is clearly not a fit person to be a father to their 17 month old daughter, and the mother is clearly going to struggle to give your grandchild what she needs.

Do you mind me asking whether you are asking just to find out about NMO's, or do you have opinions about what should happen as grandparents? I ask as my wife's niece is fighting a battle at the moment to keep her four children in far, far easier circumstances than this. They were placed with the grandparents full time for a while, with the grandparents being around 60ish in age. I hope you don't mind me asking, and don't feel obliged to answer.

Long term it is crucial bother of your grand-daughter's parents overcome their addictions and I wish them all the strength in the world to do this, for they will need to find a lot of strength to succeed.

[Wombats]

Re: Son says he'ill commit suicide over a Non Molastion Order

Thank you, I understand that totally. I have some issues (not addiction related) where some think I should just be able to recover - it is impossible, so I understand that totally.

What I wondered was whether you were thinking along the lines of offering to look after your grand-daughter for a while (how long is a piece of string time!) while your son and his partner try to resolve things? Some would want do this, some wouldn't / couldn't - there is no right or wrong. I was just explaining why I asked.

Good luck to you all whatever happens. They won't appreciate at the moment just how hard it is for you and your wife to watch all this going on.