Help !! 3 months after signing compromise they now want evidence i have complied !!!!

**Harmonica** · 24th May 2014, 17:09:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Have you done anything that you can think of that would make them want to sack you on trumped up charges? Hold fire on pointing the finger at other peoples wrongdoing until you know what you're being accused of. If they want you out then be prepared to dig the dirt on them so at least you'll have some leverage to perhaps negotiate a settlement. Put in a subject access request and ask to see all the data the company has on you including emails, statements etc.. http://ico.org.uk/for_the_public/personal_information

They don't have to give you everything because if someone else has made a statement about you they can refuse to have their identity disclosed and can refuse to have the statement released to you because they have the right not to have their confidentiality breached. But you never know, it might throw up some incriminating emails about you that you can use for your defence. It might be such a headache for them to organise that it may prompt them to think again about any possible charges they were going to make against you.

I would also go into every meeting you have from now on with a dictaphone on record. If they dismiss you they must follow a fair procedure. Record them and hope they make msitakes that may be used as evidence at an employment tribunal, should it come to that.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 24th May 2014, 17:40:PM

HARMONICA my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Thanks Harmonica that's really good help with the information request, I will use it.

When I was informed of the suspension they said its when I have been in front of clients I "may" have broken procedure / policies which means I "may" be at risk of a disciplinary. The 3 people who run the company (2 directors + MD) are best pals go on hols together and they set the business up with their own £.

They are thick as thieves and all in the set up together. the 6 week audit has been used before to "get rid" of innocent people and until the letter arrives with exactly what I have supposed to have done that puts me at risk I am gobsmacked and cannot think of anything at all. I will hold the trump cars about other people breaking rules until the very death and only if I need to play it as a last resort.

Why would they kill the cash cow and get rid of me ????, I am their top performing account manager bringing in over £6-700k per year at around 50% profits. 7 out of 10 clients I see place business with me so I must be doing something right !!!!!

It is such a set up I could scream but I have been the perfect employee, I asked straight forward answers because getting angry and flying off the handle would be what they wanted. What have I done exactly, how many times I have done it and the audit apply to all client facing staff which it did they told me. Apart from that all they would say is that "You may" have broken the rules when in front of clients which means "I may" be at risk of disciplinary action. I said they had being doing the audit for 6 weeks and they still did not know whether or not I had broke any rules and again they would not answer. They also said that I was the only employee that was at risk of disciplinary action and nobody else.That must mean that they have either spoke to or emailed clients with "set up to fire me" type questions about me when I have been sat in front of them. So isn't that my word against the customers word ???

Everything will be in the letter was there only straight answer, so in the meantime me and my wife have had no sleep hardly and its making us physical ill with worry that if I lose my job we have about 6 weeks of money to survive, we also have 3 small children so we are at risk of losing our home.

I cannot describe the disgust I have in these 3 people who own the business in the way they are setting me up yet other staff get away with blue murder.

One other thing can I call the customers in as witnesses for me to question them and can I demand a copy of the full audit with full emails/conversations about me and all staff involved. I'm sure if I could question the clients about the so called things I have supposed to have done wrong they would say much different. I have worked the same way for 11 years for the same company and never been told by anybody I am doing anything wrong at all.

Trouble is they are all in it together and the HR person is one of them also so its like asking Dracula to look after the blood bank !!! Everybody in the business is so scared of the three of them they proper lick their backsides because of how ruthless they have been and can be.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 24th May 2014, 17:59:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Harmonica, am I correct in saying the company must provide evidence of the full audit including all staff and including all emails from the company to clients they have contacted. I do not believe any audit ever even took place so I want to see everybody involved and all the correspondence and how exactly they "scored it". All the accusations stem from when I have been in front of clients, there is only ever me and the client at these meetings so what ever has been pointed at me must have come from questions put to the client by the company.

I have already requested via email as soon as I got sent home the company handbook, and how any breaking of procedures relates to me as an individual. they have my diary also, so I have asked for the name and address and time and date of meeting from when the audit started to when I was sent home on full pay.

is there anything else I should have asked for.

Sorry for all the questions but I may only have this one chance at the meeting to defend myself so I need to be fully armed !!!! By the way I will definitely have it fully audio recorded and will be taking in an independent witness to take notes. Does the company have to arrange the audio recording ????

**Harmonica** · 24th May 2014, 23:12:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Why would they kill the cash cow and get rid of me ????

God knows. They are dangling vague allegations over your head and trying to rattle you for some reason. It is deeply unpleasant behaviour but it happens all the time. Somethings definitely not right.

Harmonica, am I correct in saying the company must provide evidence of the full audit including all staff and including all emails from the company to clients they have contacted. I do not believe any audit ever even took place so I want to see everybody involved and all the correspondence and how exactly they "scored it".

They probably wouldn't need to provide evidence of everything, but you have every right to ask and if they refuse then you can question what they're afraid of. You should be entitled to know that an actual audit did take place and that it's not just a sham but they probably won't be obliged to show you everything. Once you get the letter make a list of as many questions that you can think of. Ask them for as much detail as possible at the meeting. Dates, times, locations, who said what, when and in what manner? Remain calm and co-operative at all times but frustrate them by trying to get as many details as possible from them. If they are stitching you up and it's all bogus then they will make mistakes that you can capitilise on.

You should be prepared for them to say that due to confidentiality they can't reveal the client who has made the complaint. This probably won't happen but they could do it. However, you are entitled to know the relevant dates that your alleged misdemeanors took place and then that should narrow it down.

Does the company have to arrange the audio recording ????

Only if they want to record you. That's down to them. You just worry about your recording. It's a little naughty and you could get sacked for doing it if they caught you but personally I prefer to covertly record any meetings I have with employers. You never know your luck, if they don't know they're being recorded they might say something silly that could be used against them at an ET if possible. You could ask them if they mind you recording them and they might allow it but I can bet that they'll be on their best behaviour if they know they're being recorded. Don't get me wrong. Covert recordings are to be held back until the death. Tribunals regard them as distasteful but they are admissible evidence and ultimately if you end up going down the ET route you will require evidence.

Many people believe it's deeply unethical to covertly record people without their knowledge but personally I feel that when you are under attack then you have every right to protect yourself. I'd rather have a recording that proves my employer is a liar and not need it rather than need it and not have it. I have had to go to an ET and my previous employer was convinced that they had me by the balls. It was a covert recording that made them back down and pay me a settlement so I could move on with my life. It made all the difference. Try not to overthink this. It may be nothing and worrying will not help one bit. Easy to say I know but true nonetheless.

**wales01man** · 25th May 2014, 05:45:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Can only wish the OP good luck in dealing with this all seems very strange cannot help thinking the company has some hidden agenda here They should covertly record this if its a set up they will make mistakes that could be used against them or its so rehearsed that there is something else amiss.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 25th May 2014, 06:52:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

WalesMan / Harmonica - Thank you both for your help and comments these are really helpful and is great advice.

There is something definitely going on, I visit on average 4 clients a week and have done for the last 11 years week in week out and have around a 68% conversion rate to winning orders from these visits. My figures for the last 11 years have been the best on the company. All of a sudden a 6 week audit takes place on all client facing staff and I am the only one who is in for the suspension on full pay because "I may" according to them have broken some company procedures.

I am absolutely disgusted in them to put me and my family through this ordeal, I have never had a day off sick and have a clean slate. For the life of me I cannot think of anything I have said or done. The only evidence the company will have will have been obtained from the client which leads me to think that they have "engineered" the questions to set me up for a fall.

I will be covertly recording the meeting via my I phone even if they refuse because I do not trust anything they say or do, but I will still ask them to fully audio record it as I need it for reference afterwards. If they refuse then again it smells of bull sh*t.

If they evidence they have gathered is all from asking questions of the client then legally do they need to detail this and can I bring the client in for questioning as a witness, can I ring the client and ask question them over the phone to help my case ??

If they simply say client x on x day has stated that I did this surely they must provide documented evidence to support this, I would have thought an audit will be via email ???? I do not believe an audit took place ????

**enquirer** · 25th May 2014, 09:02:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Originally posted by BOBBYMOOREISGOD View Post

I will be covertly recording the meeting via my I phone even if they refuse because I do not trust anything they say or do, but I will still ask them to fully audio record it as I need it for reference afterwards.

Say nothing about audio recording - just make your own, covertly. That way, they may be indiscreet.

This may be of interest: http://www.onlinespyshop.co.uk/

If there has been an unsatisfactory audit, then they will be able to produce documentary evidence of it. If necessary, you can force disclosure of any document in which you are named.

**Harmonica** · 25th May 2014, 09:11:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

I agree. If you ask them if you can record the meeting and they refuse but you go ahead and do it anyway it is less likely to be admissible at an ET if it goes that far. Whereas if you say nothing about recordings and just do it then you are much more likely to catch them saying things that they might regret. It would then be much more likely to be admissible in court.

The aim here is not to go to court but for you to keep your job so don't go talking about recordings etc as that will put them on code red. The recordings are just in case the worst comes to the worst. Hopefully you won't need them but if you get sacked then you'll need all the dirt you can find. Do not feel bad for a minute for covertly recording an employer who is clearly targeting you unfairly. You have every right to protect yourself.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 25th May 2014, 09:34:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Thanks enquirer / harmonica,

I agree with you both, I will say nothing about recording and record it anyway through my iPhone in secret. Plus my witness will make lots of notes also.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 26th May 2014, 09:31:AM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hi all, just a bit ore info.

My wife and I have had a long chat last night and I agree we cannot punish our children so we will be going to Alton Towers and having a night away at the coast after all and get on with our lives as normal and not let any of this affect us. I am not cancelling family outings because of those ******** at work !!!

I have paid £200 for the solicitor to look over the letter and evidence when it lands as I feel it is money well spent to protect me and my family. If the evidence is a storm in a tea cup and it looks like a slap on the bum for not much then I will not bother with the solicitor and get my money back.

I will also be sending my CV out this week and applying for other jobs.

When the evidence lands I will advise on this forum what they are saying.

Problem is, the MD, FD, Chairman and Ops Director are thick as thieves go on hols together and a quarter of the staff which is over 100 people I counted last night are members of their family.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 27th May 2014, 11:24:AM

*LETTER ARRIVED* my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hello everybody,

A letter from my company has arrived this morning and to say I am p*ssed off with it all is an understatement !! No evidence nothing but a very short letter with politicians responses.

It states in the letter.................... they "may" have identified a "possible" breach of company rules which "may" result in a disciplinary hearing. The investigation is still ongoing and we will endeavour to conclude our investigations asap. If we do decide on disciplinary action then we will provide you with all the supporting documentation to give you sufficient time to prepare. The meeting will not now be held this Thursday as stated previously. If we decide to proceed with the disciplinary hearing a time, date and venue will be advised in due course.

I have sent them an email thanking them for the letter and the update and that's it, I have not said another word.

After a few weeks of a so called audit surely they would know by now if I have done anything wrong or not.

It all stinks to high heaven this.

Your thoughts and advice would be really appreciated.

**Harmonica** · 27th May 2014, 13:22:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

I'm afraid all you can do is wait now. They are clearly trying to rattle you with their delaying tactics. This refusal to give any detail about your potential breach is textbook stuff. It is bullying but it is not unlawful unfortunately. Employers are allowed to do this as long as their actions are judged to be reasonable under the circumstances. But that doesn't make it right.

Politely send an email with your application for your subject access request attached. It should cost no more than £10. They have 40 days to provide it to you. You never know what it might throw up that can be used if the worst comes to the worst. You asking for this may very well concern them.

Ask them why they made a knee jerk decision to suspend you and request written confirmation of what alternatives to suspension they considered before they took this course of action. Perhaps you could save this for the meeting once you know what it is you are supposed to have done wrong. It would be down to you to judge when to ask this.

Case law suggests that courts do not look favourably on employers who suspend staff on a whim.

See Elias LJ in Crawford v Suffolk Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust [2012] EWCA Civ 138

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/138.html

Footnote.

71. This case raises a matter which causes me some concern. It appears to be the almost automatic response of many employers to allegations of this kind to suspend the employees concerned, and to forbid them from contacting anyone, as soon as a complaint is made, and quite irrespective of the likelihood of the complaint being established. As Lady Justice Hale, as she was, pointed out in Gogay v Herfordshire County Council [2000] IRLR 703, even where there is evidence supporting an investigation, that does not mean that suspension is automatically justified. It should not be a knee jerk reaction, and it will be a breach of the duty of trust and confidence towards the employee if it is. I appreciate that suspension is often said to be in the employee's best interests; but many employees would question that, and in my view they would often be right to do so. They will frequently feel belittled and demoralised by the total exclusion from work and the enforced removal from their work colleagues, many of whom will be friends. This can be psychologically very damaging. Even if they are subsequently cleared of the charges, the suspicions are likely to linger, not least I suspect because the suspension appears to add credence to them. It would be an interesting piece of social research to discover to what extent those conducting disciplinary hearings subconsciously start from the assumption that the employee suspended in this way is guilty and look for evidence to confirm it. It was partly to correct that danger that the courts have imposed an obligation on the employers to ensure that they focus as much on evidence which exculpates the employee as on that which inculpates him.

72. I am not suggesting that the decision to suspend in this case was a knee jerk reaction. The evidence about it, such as we have, suggests that there was some consideration given to that issue. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that the relevant body could have thought that there was any real risk of treatment of this kind being repeated, given that it had resulted in these charges. Moreover, I would expect the committee to have paid close attention to the unblemished service of the relevant staff when assessing future risk; and perhaps they did.

**BOBBYMOOREISGOD** · 27th May 2014, 13:51:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hello Harmonica,

Many thanks for your help and advice (again !!!!)

I am disgusted at the games they are playing with me and my family, the audit was going on for weeks and STILL they are scratching their backsides as to whether or not I may even have to face a disciplinary or if they have enough evidence to suggest I broke the company policy.

They didn't send me in the letter my copy of contract / company handbook or disciplinary and procedures info like I requested so I have emailed them to ask for this immediately.

I am going to sit tight, I will wait for them for the next move now and save the info in the last email you gave me for later.

This could go on for weeks, in the meantime my name will probably be mud and the gossip drums and rumour's about me at work will be in overdrive.

If I get a job in the meantime and just hand my notice in then they will have won, or do I hold my head up high and fight to the bitter end on principle.

Me and my family are in limbo, you would have thought after weeks of this audit it would be pretty clear cut if I was being a very naughty boy or not !!!!

**Harmonica** · 27th May 2014, 14:36:PM

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

If I get a job in the meantime and just hand my notice in then they will have won, or do I hold my head up high and fight to the bitter end on principle.

Keep an eye out for a job but don't resign. Certainly not until you know what you're being accused of.

Help !! 3 months after signing compromise they now want evidence i have complied !!!!

Help !! 3 months after signing compromise they now want evidence i have complied !!!!

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Announcement

Welcome to LegalBeagles

Court Claim ?