MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

[overseas]

Sorry tale of MBNA Fell into trouble as previously explained informed MBNA in Feb 2013 that I could no longer make full payment offered reduced payment no figure mentioned asked to fill in expenditure form duly completed received response posted below.

Mbna
MBNA Credit Cards
Chester
CH49FB
Chester Business Park
March 28, 2013
Dear Mr Stevens
Account:
Your repayment offer
.~ Thank you for letting us know about your financial difficulties. After reviewing your income and expenditure, we can see you are unable to make the payments requested on your monthly statements. We are pleased to let you know that while you are in financial difficulties, although the amount shown on your statement will continue to be due, you
may make the payment you have offered of £0.00 per month. In addition, we have reduced your interest rate to 0.00% per annum and will waive all future late, over limit and returned payment charges (where applicable) during this time.
Registering a default
The repayment offer you have made will not be sufficient to prevent us registering a default with the credit reference agencies even if you continue to maintain payments at this level; however we will give you 30 days advance notice of this action (unless you have already received this notice). You can find out more about what this means to you on the enclosed FAQs sheet.
Your payment date ..”
Your payment is (or was) due on March 29, 2013. If you have already made this payment you do not have to make a further payment this month. If you have not made your payment please make this as due. Further payments will be due every month (approximately every 30 days) until your outstanding balance is paid off. If you do not make the agreed monthly payments we may take further action. You can find out more about what this may involve on the
I did actually make an offer of £5.00 per month date’s are worth noting. Life carried on didn’t here anything from MBNA till August when they registered a default notice and wrote asking me if my circumstances had changed, if not do not contact them and the payments will remain the same. I wrote offering the same £5.00 per month and a CCA no response till April 2014 when received 2 letters not headed and no mention in the text of Notice of Assignments informing me the account had been sold to Idem capital securities trading as idem services and Arden Credit Management part of the Paragon Group of companies (worth viewing and drawing your own conclusions) no mention in their letter of notice of assignment either just they had bought the account and to contact them.
Responded asking for CCA and full statement since inception.
Suspect this account may have PPI involved
Had all the same response would have to go back to MBNA to obtain “ why if you have absolute assignment you should have a copy of the CCA.
Can only supply 12 months of statements from default “ why if you have absolute assignment Arden should approach MBNA”
Promptly treated as a complaint with 8 weeks to respond (this is a good get out of jail free card for these companies)
Five weeks later I received a four part document the first part was a very poor copy which looks like an altered credit agreement, most of the front page is unreadable and it has been expanded the second page was a blank copy of a credit agreement the 3^rd part was terms and conditions the fourth part was terms and conditions including new terms with my new address on, the signature is similar to mine but is partially obscured the date I find totally wrong it is April 2005 a very notable month and year for me one I am sure I would remember if I applied for a credit card. Plus letter stating this was their final response please contact to make arrangements to pay
Responded using their tactic very sorry they have had to raise this claim will fully investigate and respond within 8 weeks
At this point I started to loose the plot went on the goodf site pulled of the 1^st template letter altered some of it and sent, I put my hands up to singeing the family of etc registering copyright and many of the things advised I have posted below.

Attention Of Jamie ng

Dear Person.
As advised in my e-mail and letter to Arden on the 21^st of June 2014 regarding our investigation into your claim and notification of further request for information.
Regarding the photo copy of the CCA ( note ) supplied by you for the above numbered account also supplied by you and sent on the 6^th of June in response to a CCA request 0n the 29^th April 2014 under the consumer credit act 1974 and treated by Ardian with prejudice and in a expedient manor as a complaint.
This photocopy of said CCA you supplied is not acceptable or valid as it may have been altered changed digitally enhanced copied or enlarged the signature on that date is not clear or acceptable neither is the printed content. We now request a 1^st generation certified copy of the CCA ( note ) for this alleged account. Further we believe your clients idem Securities part of the Paragon Group along with yourselves is beneficiary to hold the account under absolute Assignment as implied in idems letter of the 4^th April. MBNA 4^th of April and Arden’s letter 6^th June all claiming the account has been sold there is no mention of NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT neither are any of the letters SIGNED BY HAND. This is misleading and could constitute harassment under section 1 of the protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Please clarify?
Your client if owner absolutely for this account is legally bound to provide all paperwork requested by the alleged debtor including a full statement from inception of the alleged account please do so as requested unless your client is not the legal assignee and holds equitable assignment.
Please clarify?
Please provide verification of your claim, by providing us with true and certified copies (Not photocopies) of the Deed of Assignment (NOT Notice of Assignment) and Deed of Novation. Please also provide us with the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company or clients company, who has seen the Original Note and is certifying these assignments as certified copies and that your company or client’s company now has the Original Note (Credit Agreement) and confirm that the Note has never been sold prior to your company or your clients company purchasing this account. Please also confirm the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company or your clients company, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.
This is an official complaint not a fictional one. Made up by you for your convenience and expedience. Please treat it as such so we may move forward. I now consider myself in dispute with Arden. idem and MBNA as such dispute this account under non compliance of request.
We will continue investigating your claim in expectation of your response.
Yours sincerely


Found out since there would be no deed of novation as terms conditions say they can transfer or assign. Does beg the question though how would the purchaser know if they had not seen the original agreement.
This is where I am at present I wrote asking for clarification to the fact that the staff who have wrote to me work only for Arden as I have come across the same names on other consumer websites working for different companies of course all linked to Paragon.
I know get standerd response
Telephone No: 0845 8494108
Facsimile No: 0845 849 4109
Email:
Our Ref:
Date: July 2014
customer.relations@ardencm.co.uk

Thank you for your recent letter. I have reviewed the issues you have raised and confirm that our position remains as outlined in our Final Response.
I am sorry if this is not the outcome you were hoping for.
Yours sincerely
Vernon Benson
Customer Relations Manager
So now I am herding cats on a open field.
Any thoughts suggestions ay help experience much appriciated

[Johnboy007]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

The copy of the agreement that they sent you, must be legible, or capable of being read.
If it isn't then send them an email requesting that they send you a legible agreement, signed by both parties.
Actually, send the email to the CEO of Paragon Group nigel.terrington@paragon-group.co.uk
Demand a legible and original copy of the agreement, as is your statutory right.
Good luck mate....

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Hi Johnboy007 Thank you for your advice will mail today. I have attached the supposed agreement. What isn't clear but is on the original the signature disappears behind the black box and there obviously is a document underneath which you can see round the top so it looks like a template may have or could have been used to composite this paperwork? They did also include a slightly different blank copy which I suppose they claim is your abilty to read and makes it legable but it is different. Would it help to upload the package including the two sets of terms and conditions. Including the new terms with charging orders added as a option to recover there debt should be interesting as I live in a very strange country the property is owned by my daughter and husband in a company name both parts are regestered here and we rent the property goods and chatells from theirr company. A sort of Caymen Isle thing for poor people. Even so they should not have the option of changing an unsecure loan into a secure loan especially by changing terms and conditions after consumers sign a agreement these are major changes putting peoples homes at risk.
Regards Overseas

[Johnboy007]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

I noticed the 'CHANGING TERMS AND CONDITIONS'.
Unless the original agreement allows for these changes, or you have since then, agreed to them, then I cannot see how they can be enforceable.
In UK law, the creditor can only secure property that the debtor owns, or part owns.
If any property, goods or Tangible personal property that is not owned or jointly owned by the debtor. Then it cannot be touched or seized by the creditor.
A secured loan on property or goods must be on property or/and goods that you own, or by written agreement with the owner.
To be honest, from the information you have given, there isn't much they can do, other than pester you for money.
Click on the link below........ It will open up on The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, which came into effect in April 2014.
This will give you all the information you need and should put your mind at rest.
:tinysmile_twink_t2:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/2/made

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Hi Again did you have a chance to look at the attached paperwork sent by Arden and attached to my last post? I would be grateful if you could before I charge of writing to Paragon I would be grateful for an opinion on what they have sent not only for me but others as there seems no clear definition as to what is an agreement format what constitutes legible how the matter should be lade out also this whole pre 2006 April 2007 matter confuses me regarding CCA.
The terms and conditions Arden sent along with the above paperwork have a provision for changing terms and conditions in both copies.
Copy one which I guess is the claimed original terms
14 Altering the agreement
14a As well as changing the interest rate fees and any charges under paragraph 1h we may also change or introduce any other term of this agreement as long as we tell you person for example, ( by phoning you, writing to you or by statement message )
No I have not given permission and they have not proved the alleged contract and terms are enforceable.
Thanks once again regards Overseas

[FlamingParrot]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Hi Again did you have a chance to look at the attached paperwork sent by Arden and attached to my last post? I would be grateful if you could before I charge of writing to Paragon I would be grateful for an opinion on what they have sent not only for me but others as there seems no clear definition as to what is an agreement format what constitutes legible how the matter should be lade out

Section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 defines what constitutes a properly executed agreement:

61 Signing of agreement.

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

The regulations regarding form and content of agreements are set out in the The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983:

SCHEDULE 1: INFORMATION TO BE CONTAINED IN DOCUMENTS EMBODYING REGULATED CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENTS OTHER THAN MODIFYING AGREEMENTS

Nature of the agreement

(1) A heading in one of the following forms of words shown prominently on the first page of the document:
(a) "Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974";
(b) "Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974"; or
(c) "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974", as the case may require.
2) Where the document and a pawn-receipt are combined, the words ", and Pawn-Receipt," shall be inserted in the heading after the word "Agreement".
(3) Where the document embodies an agreement of which at least one part is a credit agreement not regulated by the Act, the word "partly" shall be inserted before "regulated" unless the regulated and unregulated parts of the agreement are clearly separate.
Parties to agreement
(1) The name and a postal address of the creditor.
(2) The name and a postal address of the debtor.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

The agreement should:

• Be headed appropriately, i.e. "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974";
• Contain the name and address of both parties (debtor and creditor);
• Set out the financial and related particulars of the agreement:
  • Description of goods, services, land etc.- applies to restricted use, fixed sum agreements;
  • Cash price - applies to restricted use, fixed sum agreements;
  • Amount of credit - applies to fixed sum agreements (i.e. loans);
  • Credit limit - applies to running account agreements (i.e. credit cards);
  • Total charge for credit, rate of interest, etc. - applies to both fixed sum and running account agreements;
    • For fixed sum agreements, the total charge for credit
    • For both types - the rate of interest and the total amount of other charges
    
    
  • Total amount payable - applies to fixed sum agreements;
  • Timing of repayments - applies to both types of agreements;
  • Amounts of repayments - applies to both types of agreements, expressed as:
    • (a) a sum of money;
    • (b) a specified proportion of a specified amount (including the amount outstanding from time to time);
    • (c) a combination of (a) and (b) above; or
    • (d) in a case where the amount of any repayment cannot be expressed in accordance with (a), (b) or (c) above, a statement indicating the manner in which the amount will be determined.
    • APR
    
    
  
  
• State your right to cancel the agreement within a certain period of time and details of when and how to do this;
• Have a signature box with your signature and date, except for online applications made from Jan 2005 onwards, where a tick box fulfills the role of a signature.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

The prescribed terms are set out in Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983.

Amount of credit

1. Restricted-use debtor-creditor-supplier agreements for fixed-sum credit:
(a) to finance a transaction comprising the acquisition of goods, services, land or other things specified in the agreement or identified and agreed on at the time the agreement is made;
(b) under which the total amount payable by the debtor is not greater than the total cash price; and
(c) under which there is no advance payment.
A term stating the amount of the credit, which may be expressed as the total cash price of the goods, services, land or other things, the acquisition of which is to be financed by credit under the agreement.
2. Agreements for fixed-sum credit not falling within paragraph 1:
A term stating the amount of the credit.
Credit limit

3. Agreements for running-account credit:
A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
Rate of interest

4. Agreements for:
(a) running-account credit; and
(b) fixed-sum credit falling within the exceptions in paragraph 9(a) to (c) of Schedule 1 to these Regulations.
A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement.
Repayments

5. Consumer credit agreements:
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:
(a) number of repayments;
(b) amount of repayments;
(c) frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) dates of repayments;
(e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined;

or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

6. Consumer hire agreements:
A term stating how the hirer is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to pay the hire payments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:
(a) number of payments;
(b) amount of payments;
(c) frequency and timing of payments;
(d) dates of payments;
(e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined;
or in any other way, and any power of the owner to vary what is payable.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Hi Again did you have a chance to look at the attached paperwork sent by Arden and attached to my last post? I would be grateful if you could before I charge of writing to Paragon I would be grateful for an opinion on what they have sent not only for me but others as there seems no clear definition as to what is an agreement format what constitutes legible how the matter should be lade out also this whole pre 2006 April 2007 matter confuses me regarding CCA.

Basically s.127 of the CCA 1974 prevented a court from making an enforcement order without a properly executed agreement, however, that section was sadly repealed with effect from April 2007, but not retroactively, meaning if the account was opened before April 2007, s.127 would still apply and the account could still be unenforceable. :grin: :grin: :grin:

s.127 read:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner)

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Thank you once again for you guidence I am writing to the CEO of Paragon at present see what he has to say. Will post so you can see progress.
Best Wishes Overseas

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Hi All.
I have had a reply from I.dem In this they state that under regulation 3 (2) of the consumer credit act we are only required to provide a copy of your credit agreement and it is expressly stated that this need not be an exact copy. We are confident that all agreements ( plural ) are properly executed and not open to challenge. Even if the agreement ( singular) was improperly executed,and we are confident it was not then all necessary information under schedule 6 of the consumer credit act is included.
Again they refuse to supply statements from the conception of the account claiming it is MBNA's responsibility.
Going ion to claim the deed of assignment is included in the letter they and MBNA sent.
" The deed of assignment that you have asked for is in fact included in the letters from MBNA and idem dated 3rd April 2014 informing you of the transfer of your account. Going on to assure me how confident that the agreement remains enforceable in a court of law.
The account is claimed to be signed 2005 this latest letter is from a supposed director however as the staff in this company seem to swap hats roles and companies on a regular basis who knows.
History wrote to CEO on the 26/8/14 pasted back to Idem as expected on the 27th replied to on the 30th July from Operations director
Guidence Please anyone.
Overseas

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden reconed credit agreement and terms

Hi All will have to post this paperwork in two parts would anyone be good enough to view and opinion on I think from what I have read it may be enforcable but any slim chance to screw these vultures and maybe help others to do the same I would relish. Part 1 alleged contract for the most part unreadable and blank copy with very slight differences.

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden recon terms

Part 2 terms lots of new ones interesting their is a page missing pagenated from 2 to 7 Page 1 is not present, or is that the new contract but then ethere are two pages on that front and back.
Overseas

[FlamingParrot]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

I'm sorry I didn't come back to you earlier

Got your PM, I shall be back tomorrow first thing to take a look. :thumb:

[overseas]

Re: MBNA Idem capital securities Arden

Thanks FP. No need to apologise greatful for the help. You never said if you enjoyed Madrid. I hope so.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Overseas