1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

I found a defence online that I thought was rather good..... Let me find it, I'll copy it up and you can let me know your thoughts.

I really really do appreciate this. Thank you. :tinysmile_grin_t:

hmmmmm lol. Let's have a look, I'd rather help you write your own.

[ncf355]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Ame,

I have just had an order back from the court on my case stating the Claimant must supply documents#

This was after making a CPR 31.14 enforcement (via unless order) and the judge deferring the application until I entered a Defence

The Northampton judge has only made an order for the Claimant to produce the documents within 7 days, no allocation to track yet made, so maybe the order does need to be:

1) CPR 31.14 to Claimant
2) Enter Defence
3) Request unless order immediately, assuming 1) not complied with within 7 days

If CPR 31.14 is sent immediately upon receiving the claim, and Defence was entered 8 days after CPR 31.14 received (according to Royal Mail) that would then mean (in theory at least!) the application for an unless order could be made before Northampton allocate to the local county court and hopefully cut the whole thing off before it gets started?

In my case this timeline was thrown about by the surprise of demanding I entered a Defence before the court enforced the CPR31.14 (We are at some 16 weeks into their claim at the moment, so I'm a little aggrieved the court didn't just strike their claim out anyway).

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Ah good. Have you posted it on your thread and is there a sanction on it?

(bloody courts)

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

THIS IS JUST A VERY VAGUE DRAFT AND IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR EVERYONE'S SITUATION



1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. Point 1 is noted. I have had financial dealings with Bank Of Scotland PLC in the past. It is denied I have any knowledge of the above Claimant or if any alleged debt was assigned to them. The Claimant has never made any contact apart from the issuing of this claim.

3. Point 2 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment to the Claimant.


4. Point 3 is denied. Notice of assignment was not sent in accordance with Section 136 Law of Property Act 1925


On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request 12^th May 2014 for a copy of the overdraftfacility agreement, Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974, notice of assignment and astatement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, which form the basis of this claim.
This was signed for by the Claimant’s solicitors on 13^th May 2014. The claimant has yet to comply.
A further email was sent in reminder of CPR31.14 20^th May 2014, also requesting an extension under CPR15.5. The Claimant refused to put a deadline on the extension and admitted not being in possession of the documents requested, in full knowledge that my defence had to be submitted no later than 2^nd June 2014.
CPR Rule 31.15 requires that documents are provided within 7 days from receipt of a written request. The Claimant has failed to provide any of the documents mentioned in its claim form

Therefore the claimant in their none compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and attempted to hinder my ability to defend.

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(c) show Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

I request that the court orders the Claimant comply with my request for a copy of the Overdraft facility agreement/Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 it relies upon within 7 days, or that the claim be struck out.

Should the Claimant provide copies of the documents it relies upon, it’s then requested that the court provides me 14 days from the date of compliance for me to then consider them appropriately.

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Please bare in mind that I'm a complete layman when it comes to this, and I'm relying on a smidge of intelligence and a lot on people like you and Google. More

This is a defence that I found which Ive then amended to fit my case.

As always, the help of this board is appreciated.

Neil

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Okeydokey, that's from CAG I think. Let me have a bit of a sort out on it.

[ncf355]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Ah good. Have you posted it on your thread and is there a sanction on it?

(bloody courts)

Hi,

well reminded - will post it to mine now

No sanction, so I'm going to have to write again if they fail to come up with the goods (I asked for an unless in the original application, so I'm not about to pay another application fee to get the same thing!)

[ncf355]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Neil - apologies for somewhat hijacking your thread!

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Not at all.... The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. Its good to get the opinions and observations of others.

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Thing with doing it this way is you do know what the account is, the particulars aren't that vague - they have the account opening date, the bank, the default date, the default balance and you were aware of a debt owing on the account of around £1000.

So this ' particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature ' is incorrect.

Have you ever received any letters from 1st Credit since they took over the debt ?

You can deny receiving the default notice and the assignment as you genuinely do not recall receiving these.

This is the problem with trying to DEFEND the case rather than make an application for the claimants to provide their evidence in advance of your defence. Your defence will be an admission (because it has to be) but a denial that 1st Credit have entitlement to claim the debt, which they can fix quite simply.

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

OK, I'll file for an N244 as you suggest and go that way.

I had one letter, that I recall, from 1st Credit, but certainly not a notice saying they intended to go legal.

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Sorry, I'm not being awkward seriously, I sat and amended your defence to suit your case but after the first few paras it had become basically an admission with a couple of CCA issues.

The point of the CPR is procedural, you know you have an outstanding debt to Halifax, you're just questioning the claimants right to collect it, and asking the court to force them to produce their documents they are relying on before you submit a defence or admission.... that's difficult to do by way of a defence. If their POC had been actually vague and generic as claimed in that defence it would say something like ' Money owed under a contract with Bank of Scotland ' which would be simpler to defend with an 'embarrased' type defence.

Others might have different input to me so don't solely rely on what I say, I do tend to be a bit of a stickler for the truth, I think denying you know what the debt is at all in a defence is silly as it would only take the judge to ask you straight 'do you know what the debt is' and I can't see you lying in court that you have no idea, so it'd be a ''Yes, but......' and the Judge is against you.

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

I don't feel you're being awkward at all, and I prefer people that are sticklers, as they're normally the one's who have a better grasp of things.
I'll apply for the N244 as you say and we can go from there. I've just tried following the hyperlink and the page jammed. I also went direct on to the HMRC site and the same happened again, so would suggest the site's playing up.

You're right, I don't deny the debt existed.... I contest how a £1000 overdraft got ramped up to £1350 with interest and charges, with no concern for the holder of the account. I then contest J&P's (1st Credit) right to claim the money.

Again, thanks for everything. :tinysmile_grin_t:

[Amethyst]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

To be honest, I think they defaulted you and stopped it growing a lot quicker than they have done to lots of people in the past.

Had similar problem with HMCS site yesterday - I'll upload a PDF for you.

[Neil77]

Re: 1st Credit (Judge & Priestley) RBS OVERDRAFT Summons

Thanks Amethyst,

Really? I think that may possibly be down to my constant bombardment of calls giving them very clear instructions on how to go about finding the nearest cliff and making like a lemming.

I've given myself plenty of time, so I'll get that completed tonight.

Thanks again.