Civil enforcement

[Percy2110]

Hello to all

i have received a pcn and a demand for money for a car parking charge by civil enforcement ltd. my car was in a coop car park and overstayed by some 20 mins past their 2 hour rule. I have told them that I won't be paying the demanded sum due to the fact that I was not in the UK at the time of the offence. I have also told them that I do not know who the driver was either, because I don't who this was.

I have been corresponding for a few weeks to them with this and each time they come back with something else such as you have formed a contract or you are a registered user of the car park and the store? And that the sign clearly states the terms and conditions of the car parking, which it does not and I have provided them with a picture of their sign which clearly states that only a car parking charge applies for exceeded time and nothing else. I won't stop and give in to them and each time they come back it is with some absurd excuse that bares no resemblance to their original letter for money etc.

i can easily prove I wasn't I the country and i truly don't know who was driving, I wouldn't tell them if I did as their attitude is appalling.

any one on this forum had dealing with these people? I have explained this to the coop head office but I always get some bloke who can't see past that I am the registered keeper or was as it is now sold off and I go around in circles with it, it is now becoming a bit of a cat and mouse scenario.


look forward to any help on this.

cheers

Percy 2110

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement

When was the alleged offence ?

If, as i suspect, it's from 2012, then email your disdain about how they are treating you to Steve.murrells@co-operative.coop . I'd concentrate on being a loyal customer and how you now are questioning that loyalty rather than ranting. The Co-op are paying tickets on the customers behalf.

If the ticket is pre 1st October 2012 they need to know who was driving, so although they may huff and puff, they are ultimately goosed.

M1

[wales01man]

Re: Civil enforcement

They were abroad at the time a loyal customer?

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement

Loyal customers don't use a place once !

M1

[wales01man]

Re: Civil enforcement

The OP does not say they shopped in the Coop

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement

The OP does not say they shopped in the Coop

That matters because ?


It was a suggestion based on what might be the case. I don't need to know what toilet paper the op uses and i suspect the Co-op don't either.

M1

[wales01man]

Re: Civil enforcement

Funny Ha HA

[Percy2110]

Re: Civil enforcement

Hello

the alleged offence was feb this year, I am. It a loyal customer of the coop but an infrequent user. As said I was not even in the UK when it happened. They now say that 'customers must be registered for free parking on each visit' ? However, I checked with the store and they thought that I was a bit of a joker? and did not understand what civil enforcement were on about saying must be a registered user of the store etc.. Of which I clearly pointed out to them, including sending a picture of their sign within the store which states a charge applies but nothing to do with a contract or store registration etc, which is what they have now implied. I don't intend to pay this and each time they send me a letter I send a reply back challenging their responses, the coop have said that they do not own the car park but it is owned or rented by this parking company?

They have declined to say which is the case, either way the coop seem a bit scared of them which is strange and refuse to challenge civil enforcement on this occasion just stating that they have a dept that deals with this company and spend a lot of effort paying tickets on their behalf, I did say to the coop why don't you just cancel the charge if you own the car park and this bloke just said because the coop don't actually own the car park that their store is situated in?

I am in an odd sense looking forward to their next letter in reply to my challenge of a registered coop user and the terms of their sign also which they have insisted clearly states their terms of business as in being a registered shop user? And the contract obligations of the customer in relation to excess parking time and fines?


to be sure this lot are a strange bunch.


percy2110

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement

Oh a new one.

Dear Sirs,

I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals procedure. The driver did not see the signs and in any case the charges are penal and not a genuine pre estimate of loss.

I am under no statutory obligation to name the driver and will not do so. Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.

Yours etc


For popla an appeal such as http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-Appeal-Letter has proven a winner.

M1

[Percy2110]

Re: Civil enforcement

Hi M1

yes I more or less went down this road, and what's more I requested that they pay me by return of post a fixed fee of £75 ph for my time involved in dealing with this issue including investigating the coop, contacting the coop and taking photographic evidence of their signs in and around the car park in question, and each time they wrote to me I increased the price that I requested so far it totals £295. They now insist that they have not entered into a contract with me and I have explained nor have I with them regarding the car parking issue? And kindly please send to me by return of post the said sum requested. Or I myself will issue legal proceedings against them for non payment of an invoice in dealing with this issue. And as a self employed person it takes time out of my busy day to deal with this, and therefore they have cost me a loss whereas I have not to them.

I will not give in to these bully boy tactics, and yes as you have pointed out to me I am under no obligation to disclose the details of the driver even if I knew who it was, of which I don't.

i shall keep,you updated as to my next letter soon to be received from them, I did consider handing this to a solicitor but as I have seen on this and other websites it would be wasted money. (At the moment at least?)

percy2110

[wales01man]

Re: Civil enforcement

I would give Blood to see you beat these morons in court with an invoice for your time,
As for them not entering into a contract with you? They always claim that by entering a car park and reading or at least having the opportunity to read a sign you are entering into a contract why having read and replied to your letter are they not entering into a contract?

Hope someone on here can give advice and personal opinion on this must be a bloody good defence

[Percy2110]

Re: Civil enforcement

Hi Wales 01 Man

yes as as you might have gathered I have been on the attack with the se idiots, if I could only have rang and spoke to someone in the beginning, but you can't it is almost impossible to do so.

i have no intention of ever paying this supposed fine especially as I was not even in the country at the time. And as they were quick to point that a contract had been entered into it was not entered into by myself as I was not the driver of the car at the time of the alleged offence. I did ask for photo evidence of which they sent a nice picture of my car but alas no occupant inside.

And they point out that there sign displays the contract and terms of the contract and conditions, of which it didn't and I sent them a picture to prove this and what the sign actually displayed which was a demand for money only basically. Then they said that I was a registered user of the store, so I checked the store and no one is registered to use the store and the store loyalty card is not a registration of store use either?

i for one have not registered with the coop, and as I had spent so much time checking this out etc, I decided to bill them for my time as it exceeded normal time spent in dealing with general post etc..
They now say that they have entered no contract in such a situation and therefore refuse to pay. I then pointed out that neither had myself entered into a contract implied or otherwise and as I was out of the country it was impossible to park my car at the time of the offence.

they the came back with that this maybe the case but I know the details of the driver and I am legally bound to cough up as it were so I must pay the fine and claim it back from the driver? Of which I declined to take up their kind offer and denied once again the offence as paying the fine would be an admission on my part of proposed guilt of which I am innocent.

And furthermore I did not know the drivers details and I was not legally bound to cough up the name despite their thoughts otherwise? As it is I really don't know the driver details and I am not Concerned to know them because I don't really care to be honest.


Every time they send me a letter I reply quite firmly of the same content never budging and request that they send by return of post a cheque for the ever increasing amount due to me for my time spent on this rubbish, if they fail to comply I shall have no recourse but to seek damages etc with a proper solicitor resulting in county court action.

I know that it might sound a bit childish on my part, but I hate to be bullied and to be frank I really hate this car parking stuff, and to think of people who receive these letters and pay up from being intimidated makes my blood boil!

I will see how far these clowns go with this but for sure my bill is increasing lol.. One of us will cave in and I guarantee it won't be me.

In my town we have many supermarkets and the coop is the only one with this car parking nonsense and they wonder why no one hardly uses their store, it is always almost empty compared to the likes of tesco and Morrison etc..

I was responsible for the supposed offence I would pay up or certainly appeal but I wasn't and as I told these idiots my letter is not an appeal it is a fact stated to them that I will not pay for their bully boy charges and tactics and if they want to go to court I am most certainly willing but I will be armed with solid evidence as to why I won't pay up including real legal representation including details of the ambiguous car parking sign which states that

customers only in bold red and white letters followed by
charge for extended parking £90. Reduced to £45 if pId within 14 days.

thats about it really? No contract, no proposed contract or registration required by the store to park etc.. Only a demand for your cash.

more as it develops.

percy2110

[Percy2110]

Re: Civil enforcement

Hello all

an update as to my dealings with CE ltd.

i did contact Steve Murrells at the coop regarding this issue and I was passed onto Nigel Radcliffe in customer services etc.

I explained all about the case and the correspondence that I have had with CE ltd over the past 6 weeks, including stating that I was out of the Uk at the time of the offence.

i also explained that this has caused me a lot on inconvenience and stress etc..

so today I had a mail from Nigel's office stating that:

they apologise for the stress and inconvenience that this has caused men the consequence of using one of their car parks.

and that they will be making arrangements for the charge to be paid directly to CE ltd and that they will mail me the details once done and that they will keep updated as it moves along etc.

and any future correspondence that I may receive. regarding this matter from CE ltd must be ignored as I shall receive a detailed account of settlement in due course. They have a aid also that they working to resolve issues that they experiencing with CE ltd, which tells me that these people are unmanageable?

So here we are folks a winner.

I am pleased that common sense has prevailed with this but at the same time I would have liked to see it go farther to see what ends CE ltd would have gone to in order to make me cough up £90 or whatever their ridiculous outrageous extortionate fees would have come too.

the e mail address for this bloke is

nigel.radcliffe@co-operative.coop

and also Deborah misell- Williams

e mail customer.careline@co-operative.coop