Final Charging Order Payments

[exa3z]

Hi,

Recently found this forum via Google, so am new here.

There are two charging orders on my property, one for an ex for £3600, and one that belongs to me for £22,000. The property is jointly owned.

Both these orders were made final over a year ago. I am not sure what the ex is paying towards the £3600 or even if she's paying anything at all. I am currently paying £1 a month token payment towards the larger amount which was set up before the Charging Order was applied for. A CCJ determined this amount.

At the Interim Charging Order hearing the judge said that I must pay more than £1 per month towards the debt, otherwise it would take me 1875 years to pay it off (which is fair enough). Unfortunately at the time I was not in the financial position to do so. The interim order was granted but there was never an order to pay more than £1 per month made.

Moving on a little, the creditor (which is Shakespeare Puttsmann BTW) applied for a Final Charging Order and that was also granted. But again there was never an order to increase the monthly payments.

So for that last 18 - 24 months that this final order has been in place, I have been paying the claimant £1 a month still. Shakespeare's are also regularly sending me letters every couple of months stating that they have not received payment (i presume they want the full £22k in one go) or that I haven't contacted them with a payment proposal, and are stating that I have 7 days to discuss a payment arrangement with them. They also include a statement of means form.

I've not been responding to these letters as my financial situation is still unchanged.

However recently I now can foresee "some" light at the end of the tunnel. In the next 18 - 24 months I may be able to start making substantially larger payments towards this charging order which should clear the debt in about 8 years, but not without significant struggle, I would have to be extremely disciplined with my finances (which I already am if I'm entirely honest).


Here are my questions:-

I still have 20 years to go on my mortgage (yes I'm fairly young). Is it worth the struggle to pay this CO off ASAP or could i safely get away with spreading the balance over 20 years so that its paid off at roughly the same time my mortgage would be paid off ? Having said this, should I increase the payments at all ? The likelihood of the property being worth more than it is now in the future, and then if sold having the equity to pay off the mortgage and the CO is possible.

I'm also aware that the court could order a forced sale but that this is rare.


Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

[Tools]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

I would be inclined to make sure your ex is making payments to her charge on the property first.

Shakespeare's are entitled to send the requests for updated financial means details and you should return them even if there is no change in your circumstances, if they do ever attempt to go back to court then at least you will have been seen to be cooperating and there will be documented proof as to your inability to increase payments.

If your finances improve, then the next time you receive a statement of means show this, but be sure you are still able to comfortably make increased payments without risking missing one or leaving yourself insufficient to meet your living expenses or other creditor payments.

[PlanB]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

There is a HUGE difference between a Charging Order and a Restriction on a property. If the property is in joint names and your partner has her sole debt registered against it then that will only be a "Restriction" which is not the same thing as a Charging order (it's a wordplay thing).

It doesn't matter whether your ex-partner is paying a penny or not because the creditor will only have claim on her share of the equity when the property is eventually sold. Believe me when I say that the creditor will not get an Order for Sale on a property which has a Restriction and which is jointly owned.

If you have a court order which says you must pay £1 per month for your debt then that is that. Obey the court order Ignore Shakespeares unless they actually threaten a court application to vary the court order (I doubt it). Post up on here if they do and I will help you

[PlanB]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

I would be inclined to make sure your ex is making payments to her charge on the property first.

I disagree. Whether the OP's ex makes payments to HER (not his) creditor or not will make no difference to the OP's legal position.

[exa3z]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

There is a HUGE difference between a Charging Order and a Restriction on a property. If the property is in joint names and your partner has her sole debt registered against it then that will only be a "Restriction" which is not the same thing as a Charging order (it's a wordplay thing).

It doesn't matter whether your ex-partner is paying a penny or not because the creditor will only have claim on her share of the equity when the property is eventually sold. Believe me when I say that the creditor will not get an Order for Sale on a property which has a Restriction and which is jointly owned.

If you have a court order which says you must pay £1 per month for your debt then that is that. Obey the court order Ignore Shakespeares unless they actually threaten a court application to vary the court order (I doubt it). Post up on here if they do and I will help you

Your most certainly right. They are both "restrictions" after looking at the paperwork.

However now thinking back, I am unsure if the Court actually ordered me to pay my token payment, as this was in place before court proceedings even started. The creditor then applied for a variation of which a payment forthwith was granted which led to the charging order (unfortunately I don't have 22k in my back pocket otherwise this situation would be non-existant !).

[PlanB]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

I am currently paying £1 a month token payment towards the larger amount which was set up before the Charging Order was applied for. A CCJ determined this amount.

At the Interim Charging Order hearing the judge said that I must pay more than £1 per month towards the debt, otherwise it would take me 1875 years to pay it off (which is fair enough). Unfortunately at the time I was not in the financial position to do so. The interim order was granted but there was never an order to pay more than £1 per month made.

Moving on a little, the creditor (which is Shakespeare Puttsmann BTW) applied for a Final Charging Order and that was also granted. But again there was never an order to increase the monthly payments.

However recently I now can foresee "some" light at the end of the tunnel. In the next 18 - 24 months I may be able to start making substantially larger payments towards this charging order which should clear the debt in about 8 years, but not without significant struggle

Do you have a copy of the original CCJ? You need to check whether the court ordered payments at £1 per month or was it a "forthwith" judgement as you say in your last post? If there was an application to vary the original order from the £1 token payment then you would have been invited back to court with the opportunity to provide the court with your I & E etc. You need to clarify this a bit more.

If you feel you must increase your payments (although I can't think why) then set out your financial situation as it is now before you get to that 'light at the end of the tunnel' moment when you say your finances will improve. Since this is a Restriction and not a Charging Order the creditor will not get their money until the property is sold in 20 years time, and even then they have little chance due to a quirk in the law (but that's another very long story for another day).

[exa3z]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

Do you have a copy of the original CCJ? You need to check whether the court ordered payments at £1 per month or was it a "forthwith" judgement as you say in your last post? If there was an application to vary the original order from the £1 token payment then you would have been invited back to court with the opportunity to provide the court with your I & E etc. You need to clarify this a bit more.

If you feel you must increase your payments (although I can't think why) then set out your financial situation as it is now before you get to that 'light at the end of the tunnel' moment when you say your finances will improve. Since this is a Restriction and not a Charging Order the creditor will not get their money until the property is sold in 20 years time, and even then they have little chance due to a quirk in the law (but that's another very long story for another day).

I can dig out the paperwork. It was a while ago.

I was originally on a DMP paying my token payment as I could not afford the monthly payments for a while, then the creditor applied to the court for their money as they realised things were not improving. IIRC I never actually went to the court this first time but I remember filling out paperwork telling the court that I "needed time to pay". I also filled out an I&E form alongside this stating that I could only afford my token payment etc. This was accepted by the court and I carried on paying my token payment as per instructed by the court. (This is what I meant when I said a CCJ determined this amount).

Then after a while the creditor decided that it would take too long to get their money so they applied to the court for a Forthwith judgment. I was present at the court this time and I remember arguing my case that I had kept up my previous payments as instructed to do so above. Due to not having 22k in my back pocket and the judge deciding it would take too long to pay off the debt the Forthwith judgment was granted. An Interim Charging Order was then applied for and granted. And then a Final Charging Order was granted also. The reason being the judge said was to give the creditor some security over the debt as they don't know when they'll get their money back.

Like I state, there was never an order to pay more than the token payment made, and if I'm correct the forthwith judgment would supersede the previous judgement to pay the token payments (as I mention in my first paragraph).

What I really want to know is, is it worth my while busting my balls and lowering my quality of life to pay this off asap.

Or like I said, in 20 or 30 years, the likelihood of the property being worth more than it is now would be quite high you would hope, therefore there would be plenty of equity to cover this debt in the case that the property was ever sold.

Hope this makes sense and I'm not waffling.

Your responses are much appreciated.

Thanks.

[PlanB]

Re: Final Charging Order Payments

What I really want to know is, is it worth my while busting my balls and lowering my quality of life to pay this off asap.

I don't have any balls (I'm a woman ) but if I did I certainly wouldn't bust them to pay a lowlife creditor or their solicitor unless a court ordered me to.

Keep telling them your circumstances haven't changed because that's the truth.