Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Thank you so much for all your information and answers - they are most enlightening. I am going to be writing it all down as we will be visiting them tonight to hopefully give them some info and support.

I was incorrect when I said that Atos were the ones who lost Jamie's medical records , It was actually DWP and they apparently also claim to have never received a copy of the tribunal ruling from the SSCS Tribunal. Though how this can be factual I have no idea because they had to pay back 9 months worth of benefits and re-instate his benefits as a result.

My SIL was seen by a consultant specialising in Rheumatoid Arthritis and Anklyosing Spondylosis at the Staffordshire Rheumatology Centre last week who felt that his AS had significantly deteriorated. He has ordered a full body MRI (no idea how long that will take to be done) to see just how bad things have gotten and to see as well, the extent of the Carpal Tunnel syndrome. I have asked my DIL to contact his consultant and ask for a full report on Jamie's condition (I don't know whether this is possible or if they will have to go the data request route - but I know the consultant personally and know that he is an amenable person) I have also asked her to get a written report as to why his operation to remove his tonsils could not be done with letters from the two anaethetists who were in attendance and his specialist.

At the moment they are Citizens Advice in a meeting there so we should hopefully have a little more information tonight.

You may wish to contact Baroness Celia Thomas of Winchester at the House of Lords. Baroness Thomas is, herself, disabled and, therefore, has first-hand experience of living with a disability. Quite often, going via the political route can achieve more desirable results in a shorter space of time than going via the legal route.

Hope this information helps.

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Thank you guys. Sorry I would have been on to update you yesterday but I have some lurgy or the other plagueing me at the moment and feel quite ill.

My daughter has a copy of the last tribunal ruling at which they changed the Atos assessment from "0's" across the board to 27/30 and awarded in their favour. She also has the Atos Assessors report. It states his name but does not give any qualifications. Apparently he no longer works for them - perhaps fortunate because by now having done this to so many people he would be walking funny. It also states that his last medical, medical records and tribunal proceedings cannot be found - interesting....

The poor kids were running around like headless chooks on Friday. They went to the Jobcentre and spoke to someone from another area who they say was very nice and sympathetic. He confirmed that their benefit had been stopped from October 21st and that the payment received on November 5th was because it is paid in arrears - also that they are entitled to appeal. He also said not to post anything out which is sensible given the time of year, but to instead take all their documents into the Jobcentre and have them fax them instead. They will be charged for this service but will also be given a receipt for it.

Citizens Advice were no use - surprise!

The kids contacted the Rheumatology consultant who is preparing a report on Jamie plus copies of his notes - could be expensive but it is needed.

I spent ages yesterday searching for an MP who is not in the pocket of the "Ayes" and it looks like perhaps only labour here in Stoke may do it.

Thank you Bluebottle for the baroness's name - that is certainly worth considering.

I guess I shall be very busy over the next week submitting SAR's to all the relevant department. The kids have already asked for a copy of the Atos report and have told DWP that a telephoned decision is not good enough they want it in writing.

They will now be going for the whole bang shoot for Jamie including PIP. I guess the most important one to tackle at the moment is the appeal (we will have to phone DWP in the morning and lodge a request for a review of their decision) We will have to cite special conditions because the first that the kids knew that their benefit had stopped was on November 20th. Apparently the DWP had tried to phone Jamie but he did not answer his mobile - however they could not have tried very hard because no message was left on his answer machine. (Benefit ceased October 21st - final payment was November 5th)

In fact the first he knew that something was wrong was when the bank sent him a text msg to tell him that there were insufficient funds to cover DD's and they actually found out what the problem was when they called into the council to give them some documents and the council said that the benefits had ceased. Jamie knew his money should have gone the night before and was on his way to the bank after that because he thought his card had been cloned.

As you can imagine this has me somewhat riled because this is the 3rd time they have done this since 2008 and the kids have already been through and won 2 tribunals. Enough is enough.

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Someone else who may be better is Baroness Wilkins. She also knows about living with disability and was very active in the Disability Discrimination Bill.

By the way - what happened to the Disability Rights website. It no longer exists and there is no record of them in the Wayback machine either. Is this something to do with the Atos lawyers shutting sites down that assist disability

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Thank you guys. Sorry I would have been on to update you yesterday but I have some lurgy or the other plagueing me at the moment and feel quite ill.

My daughter has a copy of the last tribunal ruling at which they changed the Atos assessment from "0's" across the board to 27/30 and awarded in their favour. She also has the Atos Assessors report. It states his name but does not give any qualifications. Apparently he no longer works for them - perhaps fortunate because by now having done this to so many people he would be walking funny. It also states that his last medical, medical records and tribunal proceedings cannot be found - interesting.... Report this "convenient" loss of medical records, etc., to the Information Commissioner. DWP's admission is serious and a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. As to ATOS/DWP automatically recalling your SIL for reassessment after a Tribunal ruling in his favour, this should be pursued with the President of the Social Security Appeals Tribunal (SSAT), as ATOS/DWP may be in contempt by doing so. Contact HMCTS at Cardiff for the office address of the President of the SSAT. If you or your SIL need assistance in drafting a suitable letter, please ask.

The poor kids were running around like headless chooks on Friday. They went to the Jobcentre and spoke to someone from another area who they say was very nice and sympathetic. He confirmed that their benefit had been stopped from October 21st and that the payment received on November 5th was because it is paid in arrears - also that they are entitled to appeal. He also said not to post anything out which is sensible given the time of year, but to instead take all their documents into the Jobcentre and have them fax them instead. They will be charged for this service but will also be given a receipt for it. I think you'll find that person was one of those who fall in the "good and honest" category. Some are downright dishonest, disingenuous and/or low-empathy.

Citizens Advice were no use - surprise! Complain directly to the CEO of CAB about the local CAB.

The kids contacted the Rheumatology consultant who is preparing a report on Jamie plus copies of his notes - could be expensive but it is needed.

I spent ages yesterday searching for an MP who is not in the pocket of the "Ayes" and it looks like perhaps only labour here in Stoke may do it.

Thank you Bluebottle for the baroness's name - that is certainly worth considering. Celia Thomas has helped a number of people and things seem to move fairly quickly when she gets involved. Don't ask me how or why.

I guess I shall be very busy over the next week submitting SAR's to all the relevant department. The kids have already asked for a copy of the Atos report and have told DWP that a telephoned decision is not good enough they want it in writing. Your SIL will need to submit the SAR as it is for data relating to him. He needs to ask for ALL data held electronically and manually. He should also ask for decision-making notes, both internal to DWP and from ATOS, both electronic and manual. The reaction of ATOS and DWP about these decision-making notes should be very interesting. If they deny their existence, they are, to put it mildly, being extremely economic with the actualities.

They will now be going for the whole bang shoot for Jamie including PIP. He should apply for DLA without delay. The telephone number is 08457 123456. Make sure he does this without fail tomorrow. No excuses. :tinysmile_grin_t: Your daughter should also make enquiries about Carer's Allowance as she may be eligible.

I guess the most important one to tackle at the moment is the appeal (we will have to phone DWP in the morning and lodge a request for a review of their decision) We will have to cite special conditions because the first that the kids knew that their benefit had stopped was on November 20th. Apparently the DWP had tried to phone Jamie but he did not answer his mobile - however they could not have tried very hard because no message was left on his answer machine. (Benefit ceased October 21st - final payment was November 5th)

In fact the first he knew that something was wrong was when the bank sent him a text msg to tell him that there were insufficient funds to cover DD's and they actually found out what the problem was when they called into the council to give them some documents and the council said that the benefits had ceased. Jamie knew his money should have gone the night before and was on his way to the bank after that because he thought his card had been cloned.

As you can imagine this has me somewhat riled because this is the 3rd time they have done this since 2008 and the kids have already been through and won 2 tribunals. Enough is enough.

I have answered some points in red text. I feel your SIL's case is beginning to show signs of maladministration and breaches of the Human Rights Act 1998 on the part of DWP and, possibly, ATOS, too. ATOS may claim they are not subject to the HRA. As they are carrying out a function on behalf of the state, they are subject to the HRA, unless they can prove to the contrary.

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Thank you hon. My daughter and I will fill the forms in and get Jamie to sign them. His head is in the shed somewhat

Regarding DLA, You cannot make new DLA claims unless it is for a child under 16 - all adults claims have to be PIP

You can only make a new claim for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) if you’re claiming for a child under 16 - this is known as DLA for children.
Anyone over 16 must apply for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) instead of DLA.

Their forms are drastically different from the DLA forms - I have recently helped a friend complete hers and seem to be more or less a repetition of the ESA50

I may well need your help with this and will ask if I need you. Thank you for the offer.

Guess I shall be working at it long and hard after the children go to school.

Once again thank you for your kindness and help

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Someone else who may be better is Baroness Wilkins. She also knows about living with disability and was very active in the Disability Discrimination Bill.

By the way - what happened to the Disability Rights website. It no longer exists and there is no record of them in the Wayback machine either. Is this something to do with the Atos lawyers shutting sites down that assist disability

Certainly contact Baroness Wilkins in addition to Baroness Thomas. I don't think ATOS have had the Disability Rights UK website taken down. Try the following -

http://www.disabilityrightswatchuk.org/index2.php
http://disabilityrightsuk.blogspot.co.uk/
http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/201...ty-statistics/ N.B. Some strong descriptions of IDS.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

If you strike at the hands - make it clear that they will be pursued personally for what they have done - then they will be less and less inclined to do Atos' dirty work.

Atos will then have to pay more and more to an ever-shrinking pool of volunteers. As the pool shrinks, the quality declines even further, making litigation and bad publicity even more likely.

Or the so-called "healthcare professionals" will be allowed to omit their names from the reports they have supposedly written - and which may have been subsequently amended by someone higher up in ATOS.

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

The GL20 Request for the decision to be reviewed will be faxed tomorrow morning - they arrived yesterday. This will be followed up by a phone call to request all the DWP decision maker's documented reasons for removing my SIL's benefits, plus a copy of the Atos report, name of examiner and professional qualifications. Also a copy of the recording proving they tried to contact my SIL - He has a very distinctive message that cuts in after 6 rings so if they did try it would be on the recording. And a timescale for how long it would take to review his case. In the meantime my husband will speak with a personal friend of ours who is a paraplegic consultant in disability and the provisions that businesses make for the disabled. He has connections to the House of Lords and higher places. Thereafter we will start planning what we need to request and from whom etc and get on with gaining access to info

[CleverClogs]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Also a copy of the recording proving they tried to contact my SIL - He has a very distinctive message that cuts in after 6 rings so if they did try it would be on the recording.

They'll probably reply that they do not record outgoing calls.

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

The GL20 Request for the decision to be reviewed will be faxed tomorrow morning - they arrived yesterday. This will be followed up by a phone call to request all the DWP decision maker's documented reasons for removing my SIL's benefits, plus a copy of the Atos report, name of examiner and professional qualifications. Also a copy of the recording proving they tried to contact my SIL - He has a very distinctive message that cuts in after 6 rings so if they did try it would be on the recording. And a timescale for how long it would take to review his case. In the meantime my husband will speak with a personal friend of ours who is a paraplegic consultant in disability and the provisions that businesses make for the disabled. He has connections to the House of Lords and higher places. Thereafter we will start planning what we need to request and from whom etc and get on with gaining access to info

Make sure any requests are in writing and sent by Recorded Delivery. This lessens DWP's opportunities to claim they did not receive your request and that you did not ring. In order to deal with these buggers effectively, you have to think like them.

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

Or the so-called "healthcare professionals" will be allowed to omit their names from the reports they have supposedly written - and which may have been subsequently amended by someone higher up in ATOS.

An unsigned report or no name on the report would render it inadmissible for medico-legal purposes. ATOS and the DWP hope the majority of people don't know this. I've got news for them...

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

The initial Atos report that my daughter requested arrived - Score "0" right across the board signed by a nurse.

DWP have tried to argue that they are out of the 28day time frame for appeal but backed down when my daughter pushed them on the notification (lack of) issue. She has to phone back to find out what the status of his case review is on Friday. Certain odds say = "Declined". Then we go to war

[bluebottle]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

The initial Atos report that my daughter requested arrived - Score "0" right across the board signed by a nurse.

DWP have tried to argue that they are out of the 28day time frame for appeal but backed down when my daughter pushed them on the notification (lack of) issue. She has to phone back to find out what the status of his case review is on Friday. Certain odds say = "Declined". Then we go to war

As I am sure you, your daughter and SIL are aware or have been told by the consultants, AS is a progressive condition and the effect on the spine is unmistakable when viewed on an X-ray. How the hell can a nurse claim your SIL is "fit to work" when medical evidence indicates to the contrary and a hospital consultant says likewise? If the DWP had a copy of the hospital consultant's report and placed more weight on the ATOS nurse's report, that is an Error in Law, per se, and effectively renders the Decision Maker's decision defective. Under such circumstances, a defective decision cannot be allowed to stand.

Has the ATOS nurse ommited anything from the report that your SIL disclosed on the ESA50? One thing you might wish to press DWP on is to request the decision-making notes ATOS provided to them and also the Decision Maker's justification for their decision. There is also the argument, "Would any right-minded person consider it reasonable for a person in your SIL's condition to be fit for work?" The answer to that question, very clearly, is "No." Someone within DWP is being disingenuous and needs to be called to account, if not, fired, at the very least.

[enquirer]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

DWP have tried to argue that they are out of the 28day time frame for appeal but backed down ...

These people have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever.

Which is why ...

Then we go to war

... is the realistic attitude to take.

[VF700fen]

Re: Can we sue ATOS & DWP to stop their victimisation of my son-in-law?

As I am sure you, your daughter and SIL are aware or have been told by the consultants, AS is a progressive condition and the effect on the spine is unmistakable when viewed on an X-ray. How the hell can a nurse claim your SIL is "fit to work" when medical evidence indicates to the contrary and a hospital consultant says likewise? If the DWP had a copy of the hospital consultant's report and placed more weight on the ATOS nurse's report, that is an Error in Law, per se, and effectively renders the Decision Maker's decision defective. Under such circumstances, a defective decision cannot be allowed to stand.

Odds are that the nurse has never seen anyone with AS let alone nursed anyone with AS. From everything I have seen, my SIL is in the top 2 percentile of the worst case scenario for AS.

His lungs are compromised due to the fusing of his ribs. He has kidney damage from the inflammatory disease process. Over the next few years he will more than likely develop a severely enlarged heart because of the strain that it is under just to oxygenate his body now leading to major and probably irreversible coronary event. The AS has also spread to his knees and ankles. The medical reports will be ready next week for collection. His MRI appointment should be through next month too.

The DWP were supplied with all copies of my SIL's previous medical records, XRays and MRI findings as part of the previous Tribunal in 2011 - like you say "miracles only come to order" so they will be more than aware that this won't go away.

Has the ATOS nurse ommited anything from the report that your SIL disclosed on the ESA50? One thing you might wish to press DWP on is to request the decision-making notes ATOS provided to them and also the Decision Maker's justification for their decision. There is also the argument, "Would any right-minded person consider it reasonable for a person in your SIL's condition to be fit for work?" The answer to that question, very clearly, is "No." Someone within DWP is being disingenuous and needs to be called to account, if not, fired, at the very least.

The report we received was basic to say the least. I think they thought they could fob my daughter off with just a summary of his failures - ALL of them. It was not a detailed and complete med report.

No Enquirer, they don't have any morals that is why they take the 30 pieces of silver and look the other way. For sure I am going to war. When it comes to people taking the p.... out of my kids in this way I come out from under like a Mamba out of it's hole.