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Late Licensing Penalty charge

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  • #16
    Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

    Originally posted by arckane View Post
    Sorry to dig up this old post, but the saga continues.

    I now have full backing of my MP who has written to Jackie Manser-Thomas of the Complaint Resolution Team Manager. She still thinks I'm in the wrong even after the paperwork backwards and forwards and I'm sure this has cost far more than the £80 fine in time and effort. Even my MP has told me I should just pay the £40; "meanwhile, I urge you to pay the reduced LLP to prevent any legal action by the DVLA". That just shows the confidence of the MP in the legal system under the firepower of the DVLA.

    J Manser-Thomas has stated "I cannot find any evidence to support the withdrawal of enforcement action and he remains liable." So, car was sold, V5C sent off. Vehicle was destroyed, I got a Last Chance which I responded to by 1st class stamp, I got an LLP. Amazing.

    Well, to court it is. I am NOT paying a fine for a crime I did not commit. The Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7 will have to be declared or though I would love for common sense to reign.
    Quite patently, Jackie Manser-Thomas is wrong, and thats the plain of it.

    You've done ALL you're required to do by law, you've jumped through their hoops and been compliant, I think the MP is wrong to advise you to pay the £40 its as if he's not aware of what the law states.

    You're at least forewarned of what the DVLA's defence is going to be (normally they just don't have one, people don't normally contest because they think they're wrong), its going to be that you've provided no evidence to support your claim.

    The law says you don't have to, and thats what you'll be using.

    You'll also be busy trawling the internet for like minded cases where other people won in the same circumstances, and where possible, getting dates and places where the DVLA lost on similar grounds, because the DVLA will not have any kind of defence against that, and they will lose.

    I would advise you to write a letter back to the DVLA (Recorded of course) stating that under NO circumstances (again) will you be paying any amount of 'fine' to them, and you do not want anymore letters on the subject other than to be told when the matter will be dealt with by the courts.

    They don't like taking keen people to court, they will either back down before it goes to court, or you're going to have an armful of your evidence that will show them up, you'll win, and by god you're going to feel top of the world doing it as well

    Do NOT tell them under any circumstances what your defence will be, if they call and ask "no you may not ask why i'm defending this action, and you will find out my defence in court".

    You've done nothing wrong, continue in that vein, and also feel free to dig up more evidence. Keep us updated

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

      Originally posted by Galahad View Post
      Sorry no,the advice is wrong.

      You dont need to prove anything to the DVLA, there is no requirement to provide proof of postage,so long as you put the logbook into a correctly stamped and addressed envelope and posted it in a Royal Mail post box, your job is done.

      .................................................. ..........

      If they dont, then you will be quoting Section 7 of the interpretations act 1978 and writing a declaration that you sent it.
      Do those two statements not contradict themselves?

      It's sound advice, but he will need to prove something to the DVLA.

      Have you thought of sending a SAR to them to see exactly what records they do hold about you?
      Last edited by labman; 5th November 2013, 11:08:AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

        Please enlighten me on a SAR...? Thanks.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

          Originally posted by arckane View Post
          Please enlighten me on a SAR...? Thanks.
          http://www.ico.org.uk/for_the_public...al_information

          We can give you a comprehensive template letter.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

            Originally posted by labman View Post
            Do those two statements not contradict themselves?

            It's sound advice, but he will need to prove something to the DVLA.

            Have you thought of sending a SAR to them to see exactly what records they do hold about you?
            Yes and no.

            Technically, he doesn't have to prove anything, but as we all know about the law, DVLA will proceed anyway and waste courts time and peoples time until reminded "Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978 chap", and then the Clerk of the Magistrate will advise to find not guilty and let it drop.

            Fact is, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops, but this is the DVLA we're talking about.

            Once more and more people get used to this line of defence, then the DVLA will stop taking this rubbish to court.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

              The other thing to watch with DVLA is that they will try and obtain details of your defence. A young lady had them do this to her when she arrived at a magistrates court in response to one of their dodgy summonses. The DVLA "prosecutor" tried to get hold of her defence and the young lady politely told the DVLA "prosecutor" to go off and perform a physically-impossible sex act on themselves. The DVLA "prosecutor" threw a hissy fit and had the hearing adjourned. When the young lady turned up for the adjourned hearing, the DVLA were nowhere to be seen. She went into the court, before a DJ or DDJ, and told them what DVLA had done. The case was dismissed and costs awarded against DVLA.

              If DVLA write asking for details of your defence, they are not entitled to have such details if it is going to a magistrates court. They need reminding of this and telling them this in writing will, probably, wind them up, but they know the law and there really is no excuse for them conveniently ignoring it.
              Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                Well ladies and gents, it's been a while since I updated where I had gotten to wit this, so I thought I'd bring some amusement back to the forums.

                After my last letter from my MP with that letter attached by good old Jackie, saying that I was still apparently in the wrong, I asked my MP how I went about a freedom of information request since I wanted to know exactly how many people received LLPs and fought them. It took a few weeks to get movement, but the MP did as I requested and sure enough the DVLA wrote back.

                "You asked:- 1. To how many people were late penalty notices issued as a result of the DVLA's failure to receive the required documentation, in the financial years of 2010, 2011 & 2012-13?

                This information is not held."

                Heh, shock.

                "The following table shows how many late licensing penalty notices were issued:
                2010/11 - 584,196
                2011/12 - 491.395
                2012/13 - 592,383"

                That's a lot!

                "2. How many people to whom LLP notices were issued that claimed they had sent the necessary documentation to th eDVLA in the years 2010/11/12-13?

                The answer to this question can only be obtained by examining individual cases. Doe to the number of cases involved, the DVLA has estimated that the cost of this activity would exceed the appropriate cost limit of £600. This sum is based on one person spending thee and a half days extracting the information. Under Section 12 of the Free of Information Act, public bodies are not obliged to provide information where the cost of providing it exceeds this figure. I hope you will understand why the information you requested will not be supplied on this occasion."


                Interestingly enough, this came on the 20th Jan 2014. Yesterday I received the next Collectica letter stating I owed £80 to the DVLA again and that I must pay them in full IMMEDIATELY.

                So folks, what do you think I should do now? :tinysmile_aha_t:

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                  I applaud your determination, as a new member I have told my LLP story in my welcome message today! Would you advise making a new post as well. Thanks and good luck

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                    Still the same, get them to take you to court, you've done ZERO wrong.

                    I'd simply send a recorded delivery letter stating, "take me to court and prove your case against me there". Collectica will realise they ain't getting anything from you, and return it to the DVLA, whereby the DVLA will either press ahead for court, or send you a letter stating that due to their generosity, they've decided to drop this claim on this occasion.

                    You've pushed it this far so far, don't lose heart now

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                      Today's letter:Collectica Reference: *******Date: 26/03/2014To whom it may concern,Your demands for payment are for an offence that never happened. I am in dispute with the DVLA regarding this and until they summon me to court, this matter remains unresolved as I do NOT agree with them.Due to this, you have no right to be demanding any sum of money from me as it is none of your concern. I formally request you send my account back to the DVLA, please do so to comply with OFT guidelines.Future “demands for payment” letters will deemed as harassment and my costs to you will be £80 a letter to be read and £65 a reply.Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date. Should it be your intention to arrange a doorstep visit, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                        Today's letter:Collectica Reference: *******Date: 26/03/2014To whom it may concern,Your demands for payment are for an offence that never happened. I am in dispute with the DVLA regarding this and until they summon me to court, this matter remains unresolved as I do NOT agree with them.Due to this, you have no right to be demanding any sum of money from me as it is none of your concern. I formally request you send my account back to the DVLA, please do so to comply with OFT guidelines.Future “demands for payment” letters will deemed as harassment and my costs to you will be £80 a letter to be read and £65 a reply.Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date. Should it be your intention to arrange a doorstep visit, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                          And just as a side note, I've now also contacted Watchdog for a giggle. :doggieyes:

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                            I'm in precisely the same position as Arckane! It's particularly frustrating to note that the whole debacle is now well over a year old and the OP appears no closer to resolving the case with DVLA?

                            My own tale commenced approximately 12 months after Mr Arckane's. On December 23rd 2013 I sold my car. The following day I posted the relevant part of the V5C to DVLA Swansea together with a covering letter (only because the car was being exported to Ireland). I heard nothing and completely forgot about the whole thing until a couple of months later I received my first communication relating to a late licensing penalty!

                            I'd hate to have my own case still unresolved in 12 months time and my personal preference would be to go straight to court and let the local magistrate resolve the matter. My initial letter detailing the facts of the case was all but ignored and followed by a 2nd payment request from DVLA.

                            I'm about to respond stating that I have undertaken my legal obligation to advise of the sale of my vehicle and I dispute their authority to impose such a fine and request that my case be heard at magistrates court. Does that sound a reasonable way forward?

                            Thanks.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                              Very reasonable. Will they do that however... I doubt it.I'm more than happy to go to court over it, I've done nothing wrong and posted off my forms correctly. You posted off yours. Do the DVLA or Collectica care? Hell no, they just want money.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Late Licensing Penalty charge

                                I'm just composing the response and I'll return to DVLA Enforcement today.

                                Comment

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