disaplinary hearing

[david1978]

Hi I currently work in a hotel in Belfast city which is re opened after a 3 month renevatio. The owners of this hotel also have 2 care homes during the renevation I was asked to cover 5 working shifts which I had no problem with even tho I only use public transport and the home is a good bit away from my home.

I received a disaplinary notice letter on thursday with alagations of things I said in the care home and issues that I left early on 3 occasions without premission these alagations are complete lies and im very angry at this.

The alagations were made by one person who had a serious issue with where I was from im from southern ireland I did see ona number of occasions gestures behind my back which I explained to personel at the invrstigation meeting last week

Giving the fact that its being an easter holiday I cant get hold of a trade union offical untill tuesday which is when my hearing is can I 1 ask for a 48 hour ajourment and 2 ask for copies of witness statments and the company handbook

Really sorry for the long post and any mistakes im typing on a galaxy s2

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Yes, you are allowed to ask for a postponement but you need to specify that this is to allow you to arrange union representation. Do not say how long you want - you do not know how long it will take to find an available union rep. They won't be waiting in a queue for you to phone! Union reps routinely have full diaries and the law allows for a reasonable postponement to a mutually agreeable date.

You should ask for copies of whatever evidence the employer intends to use. This may not be the actual witness statements.

Can you provide further details about why this person allegedly has a problem with your origins? The law is slightly different in Northern Ireland - is this discrimination on religious grounds?

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Thank you for the reply

When asked by this person where I was from I told her dublin she rolled her eyes and made a gesture as I was walking away to do something from then she became very unhelpfull when I asked her how things are done in the care home

She comes from a city center prodastant estate

I have no issues with race or religon at all and im also maaried to a prodastant girl and living in a prodastant community and have never had and issues from anybody before

I do feel this woman had issues with where I was from the gestures continued for the whole time I was working there with her

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

You really need to get your Galaxy spelling checker looked at - "prodastant" isn't a word!

Did you make any complaints about her behaviour previous to this disciplinary?

Is this person a manager?

Leaving aside the alleged comments, which unless there are witnesses, is a case of one persons word against another (which does not get you off the hook - an employer can decide who they believe if there is not other evidence) - did you ever leave work early, with or without permission? Because that seems like the most obvious part of the allegations that ought to have some evidence - was there any form of clocking in or timesheets kept?

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Yea I made a complaint to HR last week it was noted down

I asked this woman could I leave 15 minutes early as I had to get 2 bus trips home so the wife could go to her nursing job we also have a 1 year old to get sorted before she went to work I did explain to her that if I left at this time I could make it home in time to get things sorted she said it was no problem at all

Now shes saying that I didnt ask her at all and I left without cleaning down which is a complete lie

There was no way of clocking in or out

Shes a kitchen assistant
To be honest all this is hear say its just my word against hers

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

You need to understand that in employment law, "hearsay" is acceptable evidence.

I am somewhat perplexed as to why you asked a kitchen assistant if you could leave early - surely a kitchen assistant isn't your manager? If you left early without a managers permission then I am afraid that clocks up at least one allegation that is partially true. That would not be a help to you.

You need to ensure that the union is aware of the previous problems and the fact that you had already spoken to HR about them before these complaints were made. That would go some way to suggesting that this is a "tit-for-tat" complaint.

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Thats just the thing there was no manager on duty not even senior nurse management on duty I was covering the head chefs holidays whuch just left me and the kp in the kitchen

Can they still disapline me with only her word for evidence?

I was talking to my father in law who is head of unite he seems to think I can put a formal complaint against this person

Thanks for the advice by the way

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

It does not matter whether there was a manager on duty or not - in fact that makes it worse. Your working hours are your working hours - not "the working hours less 15 minutes or so because it isn't convenient for you to stay at work, and besides which there isn't a manager around". Can't you see how that looks? The fact that you have two bus trips to make and a wife who works and a one year old who needs looking after isn't the employers concern. I don't suppose you left the manager a note saying "I left 15 minutes early. Should I make up this 15 minutes or will you be deducting it from my wages?"

You ask whether they can still discipline you "with only her word for evidence" - well if you are telling the truth in your disciplinary, they will not just have her word for it, will they? They will also have yours.... So I presume that indicates that you intend to lie and say that you did not leave early? Obviously, if that is your intention, then that is your decision - but be very careful that there is absolutely no other evidence of what you did, because if there is, if anyone saw you leave early or says they did, then your credibility for telling the truth on anything at all is completely screwed. But yes, as I previously told you, where there are two versions of the events, then the employer can proceed with a disciplinary, and may decide to believe one person over the other.

Yes, you can put in a formal complaint. But then again, stop and think how that looks. Just more tit for tat. You complain so she complains, so you complain again. Whether you do this or not is up to you, but be careful that you are not simply making more of an already bad situation. As thing stand, it seems you are saying that you just need to clear up this situation and you go back to your hotel job and don't have to deal with this person again - if this situation continues to "wind up" with complaints and counter-complaints etc., then you may be seeing a lot more of them in various hearings, and you may both get marked down as s**t stirrers!

[leclerc]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Did you start 15 minutes earlier on those days when you went 15 minutes early?(that does not justify it or give you any excuse for leaving early but am interested). I agree with what Eloise has said because unless this person was effectively manager of the job at that place on the day then what she says is completely irrelevant in terms of allowing you to leave early.

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Did you start 15 minutes earlier on those days when you went 15 minutes early?(that does not justify it or give you any excuse for leaving early but am interested). I agree with what Eloise has said because unless this person was effectively manager of the job at that place on the day then what she says is completely irrelevant in terms of allowing you to leave early.

Actually, the answer to the management question is buried in there. I didn't mention it in my response, but it is, I am afraid, wide open to questioning. The OP is standing in for the head chef whilst s/he is on holiday - so in terms of the kitchen, the OP is the manager. Thus "asking" a kitchen assistant for permission to leave early makes little sense at all.

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Yea I started a half hour early on the days I was there

I dont want to play the wow its me game but I do feel this is an attack against me there was another chef who had to cover shifts up in that care home and he had a terrible time complaints from residents food sent back etc and no action made against him not that I do want him being brought up against HR

I do feel because of the problem this woman had with me ive involved myself in some sort of stir the pot situation

My head chef at the hotel seems to think that because the hotel is under a different contract than the care home I should not be disaplined

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

And why would your head chef think that? Did you not do this work for your employer? Because if you work for them they have a right to bring a disciplinary. And you haven't yet been disciplined! This is a hearing. It may decide there is no case to answer.

Starting early also isn't the point - the point is that your working hours are your working hours. If they are 9 - 5, for example, then those are the hours that you work. The fact that you turned up early doesn't entitle you to leave early unless you have permission to do so, or are able to determine your own working hours. You can mention that you attended work early, and should, as mitigation - but the employer doesn't have to accept mitigation. What you should have done, although hindsight is a winderful thing, is ask your manager if you could leave early and make up the time. The fact that you didn't is the point.

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

Just have to wait and see what happens tomorrow I guess tho I will ask for a pp while I get hold of a union rep
People get disaplined in my job for being a minute late so I think I may get a warning there are also other issues from last year in the letter that they are calling me in for

[Eloise01]

Re: disaplinary hearing

It might be suggested that if you know that people get disciplined for being a minute late on a routine basis,, it was perhaps unwise of you to leave fifteen minutes early?!

What other issues?

[david1978]

Re: disaplinary hearing

A fsir bit of time off from November lsst due to an acute stress disorder caused by a heart rythem problem (pvcs) tho I have completed back to work forms and gave them doctors notes high management were not happy when I said the word stress
Im there 7 years this year