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Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 years?

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  • Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 years?

    Hi all - and thanks in advance for reading this.
    I left a Housing Association property approximately 10/11 years ago as I bought a property 120 miles away to live in with my family.

    At the time my younger sister was still in residence at my former address, along with 2 lodgers. The lodgers were helping her to pay the rent while she was at university.
    My sister left the property about 6 months later and the lodgers remained and paid the rent themselves, direct to the Housing Association.

    I have never returned to the property since leaving it 10 years ago.
    Approximately 5 years ago, I received a phone call from one of the lodger's who asked me if I would consider signing the tenancy over to him. I told him that he would have to contact the Housing Association about this as only they could give permission for this.
    At some point thereafter, I received a telephone call from the housing association asking me if I still resided in their property. I told them that I wasn't, and as I was completing my NQT induction year as a teacher, I could not consider moving back until completion. I cannot remember anything else of the conversation, but I think they mentioned repossession as I was no longer living there.
    I heard nothing further until about 2 months ago when a woman arrived at my door from the housing association.
    In brief, it appears that the lodgers remained in the property until it was repossessed in or around November 2011. For whatever reason they stopped paying the rent many months beforehand.

    I have now been billed with both the Council Tax for 2011 and the rent arrears. I wrote to the relevant Council and asked them why I have been billed for a property that I have not lived in for over 10 years. They declined to comment, and instead wrote to me saying that 'we can confirm you owe...'

    I have been waiting for some weeks now to receive a court summons so that I can clarify this point with the magistrate in person as I cannot afford legal advice. However, I have not been invited by the court to discuss this: rather, they have sent a bailiff around today. (I was not home.)

    I received a summons in respect of the rent arrears but as the case was being held in Northamptionshire, I could not afford to travel there. I wanted to submit an income/expenses form to the court, together with a letter, but there was not the option to do this.(By completing such a form, I was apparently admitting liability, and nor would the court accept a letter.)

    My contention with the housing association is this: they knew full well that I was not resident there for at least the last 5 years, but as they were receiving rent they chose not to repossess the property. Surely, they were in breach of their own tenancy rules?
    Even if they claim not to have been aware of me not being there, can they seriously claim that they had not visited the property in over 10 years?

    I have thought of offering to pay each 'debt' a nominal amount of £1.00 a week until I can find a way to challenge this.
    Can someone possibly advise me of the best course of action to take?

    As for the Council Tax, can I seriously be billed for a borough that I have not even visited in many years?! It kind of makes a mockery of what council tax is used for - provision of services to local residents.
    I have lived at my current address for 1.6 years and my previous address for a year. Prior to that I was in another part of the country altogether and getting relevant proof could be time consuming. Would proof of address (tenancy agreement/council tax) for the last 2.5 years be sufficient to stop this in its tracks?
    I do not own a car but my partner does. Having read some of the things bailiffs can do, could they take his car away for this debt? He is not named on the Bailiff's letter.


    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

    Did you inform the council who it sounds are behaving like total muppets that you no longer resided within their boundaries? If so, they are, IMHO, skating on thin ice. Yes, you do need to show them proof that you were not residing within their boundaries. Better still, contact your local Law Centre or the Community Legal Service where you can obtain free or very low-cost legal advice/assistance.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

      Send them proof of when you moved, then tell them to go swivel, also do as Bluebottle suggests and take legal advice

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

        Many thanks for the advice! Lol, I'd better not tell them to go swivel though!
        I can't send proof of when I moved out (10 years ago), but should be okay for proof stemming back about three years ago. Would an old CRB document do?
        Anyone able to offer advice on the tenancy issue?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

          Did you inform the HA that you were leaving the property?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

            Originally posted by Louby-Lou View Post
            Many thanks for the advice! Lol, I'd better not tell them to go swivel though!
            I can't send proof of when I moved out (10 years ago), but should be okay for proof stemming back about three years ago. Would an old CRB document do?
            Do you now pay council tax? Do you appear on the Electoral Roll?

            Anyone able to offer advice on the tenancy issue?
            You were the tenant. Your sister lived with you.
            You moved out, your sister remained.
            Lodgers moved in and paid her, then she paid the rent.
            She moved out, leaving the lodgers.

            Did the HA know about all of this?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

              Originally posted by Louby-Lou View Post
              Many thanks for the advice! Lol, I'd better not tell them to go swivel though!
              I can't send proof of when I moved out (10 years ago), but should be okay for proof stemming back about three years ago. Would an old CRB document do?
              Anyone able to offer advice on the tenancy issue?
              Anything that proves you were not resident within the council's boundary is fine. However, you do need to answer Enquirer's questions.
              Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
                Anything that proves you were not resident within the council's boundary is fine. However, you do need to answer Enquirer's questions.
                Exactly, to ground your case you need proof from the HA they knew you were now no longer resident, so the tenancy was transferred from your name.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                  ""I have now been billed with both the Council Tax for 2011 and the rent arrears.""

                  If this is all they are chasing you for then all you have to prove is that you were living and paying all bills somewhere else, including CT, in 2011. Anything before that is irrelevant.

                  They knew 5 years ago that you no longer lived there as one of the tenants was attempting to take over the tenancy legally so their argument is very weak as to making you liable for 2011's bills.

                  Submit a SAR to the council for the last 6 years CT and see whose name is on the previous years that were paid.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                    Originally posted by IanM View Post
                    ""I have now been billed with both the Council Tax for 2011 and the rent arrears.""

                    If this is all they are chasing you for then all you have to prove is that you were living and paying all bills somewhere else, including CT, in 2011. Anything before that is irrelevant.

                    They knew 5 years ago that you no longer lived there as one of the tenants was attempting to take over the tenancy legally so their argument is very weak as to making you liable for 2011's bills.

                    Submit a SAR to the council for the last 6 years CT and see whose name is on the previous years that were paid.
                    Sound advice.
                    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                      Thanks guys...but not so straight forward.
                      When I left my 'little' sister in charge, I left her with an ATM type card issued by the housing association. I can't remember exactly how it works now (after 10 years), but I think you insert the card and it transfers your cash to their account, or something like that. (A bit like going to a British Rail station and inserting cash into a machine for a ticket.) It's a very long time ago, and I can't remember how it works.:tinysmile_cry_t: This means, potentially, that there is no actual proof of who has paid the rent, or indeed the council tax. (?)
                      I've written a pretty acidic letter to the council regarding the Council Tax. Would someone be prepared to PM me to have a look? (I want to post it tomorrow.)
                      The tenancy is, pragmatically, a separate issue and will have to be dealt with separately.
                      I have taken the superb advice on here already by emailing my issues to my local law centre (yesterday), but as yet I have not had a response.
                      I will, if necessary, revert to common law where the bailiffs are concerned, so any additional advice in that department is also welcomed. (-;
                      Last edited by Louby-Lou; 12th March 2013, 21:26:PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                        Be careful with Common Law, Freeman on the Land remedies, you could come seriously unstuck with those. By leaving your payment card with your sister, the HA would have thought you were still resident, and therefore so would the council, professional legal advice is essential now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                          Originally posted by enquirer View Post
                          Do you now pay council tax? Do you appear on the Electoral Roll?


                          You were the tenant. Your sister lived with you.
                          You moved out, your sister remained.
                          Lodgers moved in and paid her, then she paid the rent.
                          She moved out, leaving the lodgers.

                          Did the HA know about all of this?
                          As of 4 or 5 years ago, yes.
                          It might sound odd, but a few doors down from where I lived at the time, a couple with 6 kids moved in. Several months later we got chatting with them and they told us their tale of woe: they were living in a HA property - but they were paying a private LL. It turned out that matey (the tenant) had moved back to his own country and was pocketing the rent money. The HA arrived at their doorstep with a summons and all was revealed.
                          I only mention it because the HA allowed them to stay even though they had no contract with them. It is as though their attitude was, 'well, the rent's being paid so we'll turn a blind eye.'

                          As I said in my op, I had a phone conversation with the HA about 5 years ago and they knew I wasn't there. It would appear that as the rent was being paid, they turned a blind eye.
                          Even if they claim they didn't know, can a LL reasonably claim not to have visited a HA property in 10 years?
                          As for now, yes, I pay full council tax. I have just printed off my last 2 tenancy agreements (private LL) to send to the relevant borough.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                            It would be a last resort, Scottie; if they won't accept my proof, and if the Law Centre can't help, and an MP won't step in, then it seems to me that, as a last resort, I'd have nothing to lose.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

                              Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
                              Sound advice.
                              Yes, it is 2011 - 12 that I am being told to pay. I can, at least, prove that I have lived elsewhere over the years.
                              What is a SAR, Bluebottle? If it is a search of some sort, I reckon, lol, everything still be in my name. At a guess, I reckon the lodger(s) lost their job and was too afraid to apply for benefits so just stopped paying everything until evicted through repossession - but it's only a guess. Now wondering what else might be in my name that hasn't been paid. Utilities? A string of credit cards? It's got me thinking now. )-:

                              Comment

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