My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

[Kingskid]

I have a longstanding employment grievance - disability discrimination and harassment. When I made informal and later formal complaints, I was brushed aside and told to resign. I did not. Eventually after a final grievance letter on 8 Jan 2013 and when it was apparent I had no alternative, I submitted an ET1.

They asked for extra time from tribunal to submit their ET3 and in that period contacted me for a CA which my solicitor made a counter offer to. They did not accept counter offer and now say they will submit ET3 which is fine.

HOWEVER, although it is now over two months since I submitted my last letter requesting their intervention and most of the information was already in their possession, they have written to inform me that they want to "investigate my complaint of 8th of January" and wish to appoint an external investigator / independent HR consultant. Of course he cannot be independent if they are paying him to avoid a law suit, see what evidence I have and get people to testify against me.

Due to their maltreatment I have cPTSD, I developed RSI on the job and I am very unwell now. I actually became worse when in January they got their doctor to write that I was unfit for all duties and they put me on medical suspension. I have constant nightmares and panic attacks.

I really want to know if I can politely decline this investigator talking to me since we are already going to the tribunal and our lawyers are already having discussions. Hhile he may read my lengthy documentary evidence and write to ask me for any specific points they disagree with???

Thank you.

[bluebottle]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

These so-called "HR consultants" are a menace to both employers and employees. All too often, they overlook other areas of the law that come into the equation which can land an employer in deep do-do. What does concern a number of legal professionals I have spoken to about these individuals is that they are not regulated in any way. One term I have heard used to describe them is "Rent-A-Bully". The term I have heard more commonly used is "a***hole".

You would be well-advised to speak to your solicitor before having any contact with this "HR consultant".

[Kingskid]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

These so-called "HR consultants" are a menace to both employers and employees. All too often, they overlook other areas of the law that come into the equation which can land an employer in deep do-do. What does concern a number of legal professionals I have spoken to about these individuals is that they are not regulated in any way. One term I have heard used to describe them is "Rent-A-Bully". The term I have heard more commonly used is "a***hole".

You would be well-advised to speak to your solicitor before having any contact with this "HR consultant".

Thank you very much indeed.

[Eloise01]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

You are always at liberty to decline to co-operate with your employer - but that does not mean that declining is consequence free. You may suggest, if you are unfit to speak to him, alternative methods of communicating. Certainly refusing to co-operate at all will almost certainly damage your tribunal case - it is not uncommon for employers in such circumstances to be progressing matters simultaneously with a tribunal claim, and in fact they have the right to ask the tribunal to defer you claim whilst they investigate. A tribunal will expect you to show that you have done everything possible to resolve the problem without the intervention of a court.

Whilst there are undoubtedly some HR professionals who are better than others - as there are in any field - I do not think it is particularly accurate or helpful to describe them all as incompetant or bullies. Any sensible employer can check the qualifications and experience of any HR professional, and assumptions that their intervention will not be positive are just that - assumptions. If it does not help any, nothing has been lost; but if it does then that is surely better for everyone. What evidence you have is not a state secret - you will have to produce it anyway, and long before the tribunal happens. So there is no harm in letting them have it if that is what they want - and if nothing else a good strong evidence base would probably result in a significantly better settlement offer. And the employer doesn't need to get someone in to find employees who will testify against you - if such people exist then the employer could do that entirely on their own and without any cost.

[Kingskid]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

Thank you very much indeed.

[Kingskid]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

I will really appreciate all your views and suggestions about how to deal with this. I have taken something from both responses given so far. I am most grateful.

[enquirer]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

A tribunal will expect you to show that you have done everything possible to resolve the problem without the intervention of a court.

True.

On the other hand, there already appears to be a voluminous correspondence, so it cannot reasonably be claimed that the OP has been uncommunicative.

[Eloise01]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

True.

On the other hand, there already appears to be a voluminous correspondence, so it cannot reasonably be claimed that the OP has been uncommunicative.

No. But that isn't enough. The OP has submitted a grievance, and a tribunal will allow the employer time to consider this. So moving this forward is in the OPs best interest. They do have some leeway about how they interact on this. But refusal would not be wise. It would inevitably be considered to the detriment of the OPs argument.

[bluebottle]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

Whilst there are undoubtedly some HR professionals who are better than others - as there are in any field - I do not think it is particularly accurate or helpful to describe them all as incompetant or bullies. Any sensible employer can check the qualifications and experience of any HR professional, and assumptions that their intervention will not be positive are just that - assumptions. If it does not help any, nothing has been lost; but if it does then that is surely better for everyone. What evidence you have is not a state secret - you will have to produce it anyway, and long before the tribunal happens. So there is no harm in letting them have it if that is what they want - and if nothing else a good strong evidence base would probably result in a significantly better settlement offer. And the employer doesn't need to get someone in to find employees who will testify against you - if such people exist then the employer could do that entirely on their own and without any cost.

These aren't assumptions, Eloise. They are the observations of legal professionals I know and HR professionals I have witnessed behaving like the bodily orifice referred to in my earlier post. In my last job, before Fibromyalgia took a hold on me, where there was and still is a culture of bullying by managers, the employer was so weak, rather than face up to the bullies, he would bury his head in the sand and go into denial, calling on an HR professional to sweep complaints under the carpet. The HR professional came in one day, with regard to a case of bullying against one of my colleagues who was signed off sick by their GP due to the effect that sustained bullying had had on their health, and claimed he had been in previously and no-one had approached him about bullying. On checking the visitors book, it was quickly established that the HR consultant had not never been to or set foot in our place of work until that day. My colleague's TU rep called myself and other employees into the meeting this HR consultant was holding with my colleague and the employer and ,one by one, we confirmed he had not been seen on the premises before that day. When the visitors book was produced and it confirmed the HR consultant was being less than factual, the TU warned the employer that the matter would be taken further, then, the TU rep informed the HR consultant his conduct would be pursued with CIPD. As a result, the employer was placed under an Improvement Order by Health & Safety Inspectors for a minimum of 12 months. What happened to the HR consultant I do not know.

It is public knowledge that business consultants have caused untold problems and bled the public purse, as well as private sector businesses, and are not the most favourite of people with MPs. There is a need to bring business consultants of all kinds - including HR consultants - under the umbrella of statutory regulation. Allowing them to continue to self-regulate themselves is a mistake.

[Eloise01]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

These aren't assumptions, Eloise. They are the observations of legal professionals I know and HR professionals I have witnessed behaving like the bodily orifice referred to in my earlier post. In my last job, before Fibromyalgia took a hold on me, where there was and still is a culture of bullying by managers, the employer was so weak, rather than face up to the bullies, he would bury his head in the sand and go into denial, calling on an HR professional to sweep complaints under the carpet. The HR professional came in one day, with regard to a case of bullying against one of my colleagues who was signed off sick by their GP due to the effect that sustained bullying had had on their health, and claimed he had been in previously and no-one had approached him about bullying. On checking the visitors book, it was quickly established that the HR consultant had not never been to or set foot in our place of work until that day. My colleague's TU rep called myself and other employees into the meeting this HR consultant was holding with my colleague and the employer and ,one by one, we confirmed he had not been seen on the premises before that day. When the visitors book was produced and it confirmed the HR consultant was being less than factual, the TU warned the employer that the matter would be taken further, then, the TU rep informed the HR consultant his conduct would be pursued with CIPD. As a result, the employer was placed under an Improvement Order by Health & Safety Inspectors for a minimum of 12 months. What happened to the HR consultant I do not know.

It is public knowledge that business consultants have caused untold problems and bled the public purse, as well as private sector businesses, and are not the most favourite of people with MPs. There is a need to bring business consultants of all kinds - including HR consultants - under the umbrella of statutory regulation. Allowing them to continue to self-regulate themselves is a mistake.

OK - they are your opinions but they are generalisations and based on your personal experience of a few employers. They are not the views of all legal professionals because they are not my views - my view is as stated that HR professionals vary in their ability just as any other brand of worker does.

I am selcom impressed by "public knowldege" - in the fisr place I tend to find that the public have little or no knowledge of things that are claimed to be public knowledge; and public knowledge, like public opinion, does not make it correct or right. It is public knowledge, for example, that employment tribunals frequently hand out massive awards for unfair dismissal - it is, hoever, not a fact!

[CleverClogs]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

I am selcom impressed by "public knowldege" - in the fisr place I tend to find that the public have little or no knowledge of things that are claimed to be public knowledge; and public knowledge, like public opinion, does not make it correct or right. It is public knowledge, for example, that employment tribunals frequently hand out massive awards for unfair dismissal

And then there are the massive pay-outs given to Muslim workers "forced" to handle pork, just because "the EU imposed their Human Rights convention on us."

That's public knowledge, too.

And also pure paadenstront.

[Eloise01]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

One thing I would comment on in relation to the OP is that what isn't clear here is what form the alleged discrimination has taken, and why this has been so prolonged a matter. As I understand it, the OP has already had one solicitor previously which they dismissed, and has also dismissed their union from representing them, and is now represented by another solicitor (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4489985) and this matter has been going on for over a year. That is an uncommonly lengthy period of time for a dispute of this nature to have not progressed to any degree at all, and to only now be lodging a legal claim. Whilst that may not, in itself, be relevant, there is clearly an enormous back story here, and it is exceptionally difficult to provide accurate advice on so little information.

[bluebottle]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

OK - they are your opinions but they are generalisations and based on your personal experience of a few employers. They are not the views of all legal professionals because they are not my views - my view is as stated that HR professionals vary in their ability just as any other brand of worker does.

I am selcom impressed by "public knowldege" - in the fisr place I tend to find that the public have little or no knowledge of things that are claimed to be public knowledge; and public knowledge, like public opinion, does not make it correct or right. It is public knowledge, for example, that employment tribunals frequently hand out massive awards for unfair dismissal - it is, hoever, not a fact!

The problem is, Eloise, that right-wing political factions - some of them extreme right-wing - have been stirring up rumours and misinformation about ETs and other employment matters in order to justify dismantling employment rights that people have fought hard for over the years. People are waking up to this and are challenging politicians more, which is healthy, and the politicians don't like it. As I have said on other threads, current Employment Law, including the changes Boy George and Boy David are trying to steamroller through, needs tearing up and all parties need to sit down and thrash out a framework that is fair to all and keeps bully-boy and rogue employers in their boxes or, better still, prevents them from setting up businesses and then exploiting employees and paying low wages. The Tax Credits being paid by the taxpayer to low-paid workers are, in effect, a subsidy, and is not only unfair to honest and reputable employers who pay fair wages, it is potentially in breach of EU laws.

[enquirer]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

So moving this forward is in the OPs best interest. They do have some leeway about how they interact on this. But refusal would not be wise. It would inevitably be considered to the detriment of the OPs argument.

Have to disagree on this one. I don't see it as inevitable, or appropriate, that the OP should suffer due to declining to co-operate with an outside party appointed by the body with whom they are in dispute.

[bluebottle]

Re: My employers want me to see private HR investigato for a case at tribunalr

Taking into account that HR consultants act for the employer, is it any wonder few, if any, people trust them to be independent? ACAS operate a completely independent mediation service which is available to both employees and employers alike. I always question any refusal by an employer to enter into mediation. Hopefully, when mediation becomes mandatory, this attitude will change. However, we can only live and hope this comes about.