Please help, Final written warning

[Eupharies]

Hello

On 14th jan i got suspended from work, disciplinary on the 17th jan, i was verbally warned... nothing was signed i got a copy of nothing regarding the outcome or the notes taken in the meeting.

Anyway.... today out of the blue, i suddenly got handed a letter advising for the meeting on the 17th of Jan i was receiving a final written warning?????

Almost 2 months later....

Is that legal, id have imagined i would have had to be given that in the meeting.... and would have had to sign something there and then to confirm i understand.

Also the letter i got today is NOT DATED, so im not sure what they are trying to do... its as if they have suddenly decided they dont need me and are trying to find a way to sack me...

Where do i stand regarding this??

I look forward to your replies

[starukkiwi]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

You will need to get a copy of your company's disciplinary policy (they should have sent it with the letter inviting you to the hearing and also look at the http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2174 - ACAS COde of Practice The Code advises the decision be given in writing as soon as the desision is made; however, your own company policy may be different - you should have the right to appeal the decision - you may need to take some legal advice or if in a Trade Union, your Officer's advice. I am sure one of the more experienced admins will be by with the legalities of it; but on the face of it they have confirmed in writing what the decision is - you can ask for it to be dated and the letter should tell you how long the warning is live for - hope this helps

[Eloise01]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

People often confuse the terms verbal and written warning - which is why some employers do not use verbal warnings at all. Just because you are told that you have recieved a warning, doesn't mean that it is a verbal warning. The level of the warning is what matters - so you can tell someone that they will receive a final warning and then later confirm that in writing. And whether this is what happened or not is, I am afraid, not really important since you cannot prove otherwise. I agree that a written outcome ought to have been confirmed quicker than this, but at the same time that is opinion and not law. It is relatively easy to explain away such a lapse - an error, or someone thinking it had been done when it hadn't.

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

mmm bad times! Thing is i know exactly what they are doing, I had a row with my manager the other day, and now all of a sudden they are issuing me a warning for what happened in january... its just a way of trying to punish me for the row the other day.

Thing is from the actual disciplinary itself... i was not given a copy of the notes, and nothing was signed by myself after it...

[Eloise01]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

But again, these things might be good practice, but they aren't law and aren't required. If you wanted the notes you could have asked for them.

You need to understand that "verbal" and "written" are just descriptions - they have no meaning or value. There are just warnings. It is the level of the warning that is relevant - how serious it is. It's a bit slipshod, but many employers, especially small ones, often are.

I perhaps ought to point out that "having a row with your manager", whether or not you have any warnings, it not really a sensible or appropriate way to conduct workplace dealings. If there is a disagreement then you should discuss things calmly to try to resolve the problem. If that does not work, then there is a grievance procedure for resolving issues. If you have already had a disciplinary warning, then head firmly below the parapet is generally the accepted best advice, to ensure you get no more.

How long have you worked there?

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

True, im just useds to working for big companies where that stuff is standard... I just find it odd how i got nothing for 50 days, and now they are using a row as an excuse to issue a final warning for something previously done... pretty poor in my opinion.

I have been at this company for 18 months

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Also i just found out the note taker of the meeting ( just another member of staff) knows about the final written warning.. ive told noone, and its not something that would have been discussed with him... he emailed me saying about it.... thats not really on at all....

[Eloise01]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Knows what exactly? And why would he have volunteered this information to you? The employer will no doubt claim that of course he knows about the final warning since he was the note taker during the process. Since it is true and he was the note taker, how are you going to counter such an argument, and what do you hope to get out of it?

[leclerc]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Eloise, I hope you do not mind me stepping on your toes here, but was the OP given the evidence that was to be used at this meeting on the same day that they were suspended? Were they advised of representation and did they take a rep with them? The short period of time from suspension to disciplinary meeting is slightly concerning depending on the outcome of the response.

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Thanks for your replies.

Thing is nothing was decided in the meeting, the director went off alone, then came back and was just like yeh you are gonna get a warning, note taker was not in the room. I was given a letter advising i could bring someone to the meeting, but 2 days is not a big timescale so didnt bother.

I signed nothing, was given a copy of nothing, and all ive now had is a letter advising a final written warning.

I want to achieve having this final written warning quashed... but know if i appeal without something legal / proper reasons they wont care

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

yes i was given the evidence by the way, skype conversation ( good old skype)

[leclerc]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

yes i was given the evidence by the way, skype conversation ( good old skype)

So you were given nothing in writing? Did you receive anything in writing when you were suspended?

[Eloise01]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Eloise, I hope you do not mind me stepping on your toes here, but was the OP given the evidence that was to be used at this meeting on the same day that they were suspended? Were they advised of representation and did they take a rep with them? The short period of time from suspension to disciplinary meeting is slightly concerning depending on the outcome of the response.

No, not at all. There is a reason why I didn't bother asking these questions (apart from whether they were given the evidence when they were suspended - that isn't required). Well two reasons. The first reason is because tribunals do not look into "history" - they look do not consider previous warnings when dealing with whether a dismissal is fair or not. They examine only the reason / process for dismissal. So it doesn't help the OP very much, since the only good reason to raise these issues would be to get into it with the employer - which does not seem wise right now. The second reason was because the OP hasn't suggested they weren't guilty of whatever it was. In my experience people are screaming from the rooftops when they think they are innocent - even when they are sometimes actually guilty! Had a case of that recently - absolutely 110% innocent, didn't do it... and after explaining what happened I had to point out that they were in fact guilty! If they did it, then there is little point in rehashing - if the employer wishes to give a formal warning, even a final one, they can. There might have been a little space if they didn't do it and could prove it, but not much because the outcome is less than dismissal.

To be honest, I am more interested in why the employer didn't simply bring another disciplinary for having a row with the manager. This "final warning" that the OP denies was a final warning seems more strange than anything. Why not simply make it another disciplinary and then give a final warning? But that is curiousity more than anything (unless, of course, the next disciplinary is already in the offing and the OP simply doesn't know yet).I still think it will be difficult to prove anything other than "forgot to send the letter", and there is nobody to prove it to - as I said, a tribunal isn't really interested in lesser outcomes.

[Eloise01]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

I want to achieve having this final written warning quashed... but know if i appeal without something legal / proper reasons they wont care

You aren't going to get that. The only person who can do this is the employer. Stick your head down, keep it down and look for another job. Sometimes that is the only answer, and in this case, I think it is true.

[Eupharies]

Re: Please help, Final written warning

Cheers guys, look like thats prob for the best then!

Yeh i was given a suspension letter etc, just really weird how its so obvious they are trying to fire me, yet nothing i can do about it haha