Written warning for absence - produced sick note

[rach321]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

It's more principle, I just think it's highly unfair. I know it's not serious but I work my butt off and everyone else will be reaping the bonus and pay rise - way to lower morale!

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Look, I know you don't want to hear this. I sort of agree with you anyway. But that isn't the point. The principle could just as easily be "I never had a day off sick so why should XX get the same pay rise/ bonus" as me". It is fair in law. You are just going to have to accept that. There isn't a better answer.

[jon1965]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Sadly everything you have been told is correct. In my last work one of the "requirements" for applying for a more senior job was to have a clean record but this was not strictly adhered to. As for the absence policy , again in my last place of work your two periods of absence would have triggered an informal meeting which could have resulted in a warning however it was not mandatory (although some managers thought it was)

If they are treating some people in one way and some people in another then should it lead to dismissal I think you may have a case as it seems to breach ACAS codes but Eloise would be the person to ask about that however you are no where near that yet. To be honest so many doctors put viral infection on fit notes it is meaningless, however if there is a definite diagnosis say, Hep A or HIV then again I believe you would have more protection.

[jon1965]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

It's more principle, I just think it's highly unfair. I know it's not serious but I work my butt off and everyone else will be reaping the bonus and pay rise - way to lower morale!

Rach you really need to let it go or it really will lower your moral and possibly cause trouble within the workplace. I ued to be one of those that fought everyones battles for them, a well as my own but in the end you learn that the employer has the upper hand and you either accept it or move on. I accepted it and was promoted twice in 2 years after being in the same job for 10

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Rach you really need to let it go or it really will lower your moral and possibly cause trouble within the workplace. I ued to be one of those that fought everyones battles for them, a well as my own but in the end you learn that the employer has the upper hand and you either accept it or move on. I accepted it and was promoted twice in 2 years after being in the same job for 10

Applaudable though it is, fighting someone elses battle should be the job of a union rep - otherwise fighting everyones else battle is a recipe for disaster. In a thousand employment tribunals, you will find one person willing to put their job on the line for someone or something they think is right. Those are not good odds... If you want to fight for principles, tilt at windmills, or whatever - be the union rep. It is harder (but not impossible) to touch the union rep!

[jon1965]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Applaudable though it is, fighting someone elses battle should be the job of a union rep - otherwise fighting everyones else battle is a recipe for disaster. In a thousand employment tribunals, you will find one person willing to put their job on the line for someone or something they think is right. Those are not good odds... If you want to fight for principles, tilt at windmills, or whatever - be the union rep. It is harder (but not impossible) to touch the union rep!

There was no union rep or recognised union in the sales part of the business. I worked for one of the largest food and beverage companies in the world . I eventually learned that no one thanked you, you got marked as a trouble maker and became so demoralised that the job was no longer enjoyable.
At one point my choice was to go to ET or shut up, as I had an ex wife, mortgage and rent to pay for I didn't have a choice really.

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

There was no union rep or recognised union in the sales part of the business. I worked for one of the largest food and beverage companies in the world . I eventually learned that no one thanked you, you got marked as a trouble maker and became so demoralised that the job was no longer enjoyable.
At one point my choice was to go to ET or shut up, as I had an ex wife, mortgage and rent to pay for I didn't have a choice really.

That does not prevent anyone joining a union or becoming a union rep. Employers might like to make you think that is the case, but it isn't. Recognition is irrelevant - it simply gives an agreed right to negotiate on certian terms and matters. The bigger they are, the harder they fall...

[jon1965]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Thanks
Nice to know now but too late.
Great info for others though

[CleverClogs]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

No - you are alleging discrimination now, and discrimination in law only "counts" on the basis of certain protected characteristics such as race or age or gender.

Would the same apply if the cause for absence had been a condition from which few men suffer, such as PMS?

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Would the same apply if the cause for absence had been a condition from which few men suffer, such as PMS?

Sickness is sickness. Pregnancy realted sickness cannot be counted, but all other sickness is.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Sickness is sickness. Pregnancy realted sickness cannot be counted, but all other sickness is.

So no allowance can be made for the gender (OK, sex) of the worker who has a recurrent condition from which few (if any) of her male colleagues suffer?

Isn't that indirect sex discrimination?

[jon1965]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Correct me if I am wrong but sickness that is due to a disability (as defined) is also covered

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

Correct me if I am wrong but sickness that is due to a disability (as defined) is also covered

No. That is a common myth. It is pregnancy related illness only. Adjusting sickness targets for disability MAY be considered as a reasonable adjustment in specific circumstances, but there is no right to it in law.

[Eloise01]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

So no allowance can be made for the gender (OK, sex) of the worker who has a recurrent condition from which few (if any) of her male colleagues suffer?

Isn't that indirect sex discrimination?

No. There are medical conditions that also affect only men, or primarily men. They don't get allowances for those either.

[bluebottle]

Re: Written warning for absence - produced sick note

The current mentality of employers to punish employees for being ill is bullying per se. The management of those employers who engage in such practices know very well they are bound by health and safety legislation and if a GP has instructed an employee to refrain from work, the GP has done so with good reason. GPs are under statutory obligations to inform the DoH where certain illnesses are concerned and to ensure patients with such illnesses are isolated. It's called Public Health.

Workplace bullying costs the British economy £26 billion each year. Yes, this may seem an astronomical figure, but it includes -

• Lost Productivity
• Hiring Temporary Staff
• Sick Pay
• NHS Costs
• Legal Fees
• Court Fees

Those who engage in workplace bullying, or know it is going on and do nothing to abate or prevent it, or who act as apologists for it need to bear in mind the financial and human costs involved and do something to put a stop to it. Any employer who engages in bullying as a method of motivating employees really does need to seriously ask themselves whether they should be in business or whether legal steps need to be taken to take the business away from them, if only to protect the physical and mental health of employees.