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  1. #1
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    Default Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    I have had a long battle going on with Lloyds over a credit card which had PPI applied to it.
    The card was applied for in 1999 on a visit to the bank on some other matter, however the lady in the bank did the usual, filled in the application form, got me to sign and and told me because we'd ticked the insurance the application would be accepted.

    Fast forward to July 2006, the account was still in use and the news broke about bank and credit card charges. I started to go through my banking details and realised I had quite a few cards/loan that had first of all late payment charges, and PPI on them. I called Lloyds and cancelled the PPI. In January 2007 I sent off a SAR for the info on the PPI and the account, after receiving no information at all on the PPI I had paid for 7 years I wrote to them and informed them I was placing the account into dispute and why. All they sent me was a copy of the application form (no cancellation details, no credit limit, very few T&C) and some card statements, but only going back to 2001, nothing for 1999 or 2000.

    I think I made my last voluntary payment maybe around March 2007 (I will have to check) but despite this they continued to remove funds from my current and savings accounts to pay off the balance.
    This resulted in D/Ds being unpaid including my mortgage, more charges on both the current account and the card account. Finally in November 2007 I moved my current account to another bank to stop them taking payments. This resulted in my current account being £900 overdrawn, which has still not been resolved, the total being made up from bank charges ant the card payments they took.

    I wrote to them numerous times asking for the info on the PPI, asking for the money back (I had never claimed on it) and also for the charges on the card account to be returned - nothing
    Lloyds defaulted me in January 2008.
    Since then it has been passed to around seven different DCAs.
    I reported them to FOS and they upheld my complaint, Lloyds had to put me back in a position I would have been had I not been sold the PPI.
    In December 2011 I received a cheque, I signed nothing and there was no explanation of how they came to this decision on the amount! I rang them and they told me because it went back to 1999 they could only estimate what I had paid, hence the amount they sent????? Their records only want back to 2005!

    In the background I was still receiving threatening letters about the account and in July last year lloyds sold the account to CAI Finance, whoever they are.
    I've had no contact with them until yesterday. They have now sent me a claim form from Northampton County Court for the full amount on the account.
    I intend to defend as I still feel there is unfinished business with lloyds.
    However I am completely out of my depth with this as I've never had any legal dealings. So I have a few questions.

    1. On the claim form it states that I defaulted on the account in May 2008, this is untrue as it was January 2008

    2. The total they are asking for includes late payment charges and interest, where do i stand with this?

    3. I've worked that I have not actually paid anything for 71 months, so where do we stand on the time limitations front

    4. How do I respond? I have registered with MCOL what do I need to say?


    many thanks and a chocolate biccy for getting this far

    Birch

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Hiya Birchave - enjoyed my choccy biccy thanks! Someone who can actually help you will be along soon

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by MissFM View Post
    Hiya Birchave - enjoyed my choccy biccy thanks! Someone who can actually help you will be along soon
    Thanks MissFM

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    1. On the claim form it states that I defaulted on the account in May 2008, this is untrue as it was January 2008
    If you are in Scotland and your last payment was in January 2008 then the debt would be Statute Barred, however, if you are in England or Wales it wouldn't make any difference because the period is 6 years rather than 5.

    2. The total they are asking for includes late payment charges and interest, where do i stand with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    3. I've worked that I have not actually paid anything for 71 months, so where do we stand on the time limitations front
    You say above you defaulted in Jan 2008, how do you work out you haven't paid for 71 months? However, unless you are in Scotland, you are unlucky I'm afraid, because 6 years = 72 months.
    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    4. How do I respond? I have registered with MCOL what do I need to say?
    The Claim is deemed served on you by taking the date in the top right corner being the date of issue, and adding 5 days to it, so it it says issue date 20th then the claim is deemed served on the 25. Then you have 14 days from the 25 to acknowledge service. Once service is acknowledged you get an additional 14 days on top to file your defence, so you get 28 days from 25th. There are provisions within the rules to seek documents from the opponent and also to agree a further additional extension of time of up to 28 days to prepare your defence.

    Did you get a letter before action or letter of claim?

    Could you post up any documents you have, including the PoC (particulars of claim) as well as the purported agreement you received some time ago and anything else that may be relevant. Remove/blank out any personal details that could identify you and upload the files. You can scan the documents or take a picture with a digital camera or mobile phone.

    Depending on the balance and the circumstances, you could get legal representation on a conditional fee agreement basis. You may consider contacting this firm who specialise in credit litigation -> http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/contact.html Or you could PM PT2537 with a link to this thread - he works for that firm and has successfully defended a number of consumer credit cases :first: including this one -> http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...012/07/22/153/ where the defendant is also a member here on LB: Plan B.

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingParrot View Post
    If you are in Scotland and your last payment was in January 2008 then the debt would be Statute Barred, however, if you are in England or Wales it wouldn't make any difference because the period is 6 years rather than 5.

    2. The total they are asking for includes late payment charges and interest, where do i stand with this?

    You say above you defaulted in Jan 2008, how do you work out you haven't paid for 71 months? However, unless you are in Scotland, you are unlucky I'm afraid, because 6 years = 72 months.
    The Claim is deemed served on you by taking the date in the top right corner being the date of issue, and adding 5 days to it, so it it says issue date 20th then the claim is deemed served on the 25. Then you have 14 days from the 25 to acknowledge service. Once service is acknowledged you get an additional 14 days on top to file your defence, so you get 28 days from 25th. There are provisions within the rules to seek documents from the opponent and also to agree a further additional extension of time of up to 28 days to prepare your defence.

    Did you get a letter before action or letter of claim?

    Could you post up any documents you have, including the PoC (particulars of claim) as well as the purported agreement you received some time ago and anything else that may be relevant. Remove/blank out any personal details that could identify you and upload the files. You can scan the documents or take a picture with a digital camera or mobile phone.

    Depending on the balance and the circumstances, you could get legal representation on a conditional fee agreement basis. You may consider contacting this firm who specialise in credit litigation -> http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/contact.html Or you could PM PT2537 with a link to this thread - he works for that firm and has successfully defended a number of consumer credit cases :first: including this one -> http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...012/07/22/153/ where the defendant is also a member here on LB: Plan B.
    I am in England, I last paid against the account in Feb/March 2007
    They sent me a default notice in January 2008

    The claim date is 15th February 2013
    I received no LBA action from them.

    I will try and post up what I have received.

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt







    I hope the above works

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Are you intending to defend all, some or none of this ?

    If defending are you willing/able to do it yourself or perhaps get professional help ?

    M1

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Are you intending to defend all, some or none of this ?

    If defending are you willing/able to do it yourself or perhaps get professional help ?

    M1
    I am defending, I'm quite happy to have a bash at doing it myself although I know I will need some help along the way.
    I have logged into MCOL and have filed an acknowledgement of service
    I have also ordered a book on small claims cases

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Small claims is still £5000 and increases to £10000 in April.

    In order to defend you should get a 31.14 letter away pronto asking for notice of assignment, deed of assignment , the agreement and default notice. Send recorded or special and give them 7 days from when they get it.

    When they fail phone them and give them 3 further days. Follow the call up with an email confirming the call and it's contents immediately after said call.

    Keep all your evidence attempting to get the info. You will most probably need it.

    M1

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Small claims is still £5000 and increases to £10000 in April.

    In order to defend you should get a 31.14 letter away pronto asking for notice of assignment, deed of assignment , the agreement and default notice. Send recorded or special and give them 7 days from when they get it.

    When they fail phone them and give them 3 further days. Follow the call up with an email confirming the call and it's contents immediately after said call.

    Keep all your evidence attempting to get the info. You will most probably need it.

    M1
    sorry what is a 31.14 letter?

    thanks

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    thanks for the above, I've adapted to suit the above link/letter and it is as follows;

    26th February 2013


    Dear Sir,

    Re: (CAI Finance Limited) v (xxxxxxxxxx) Case No xxxxxx

    CPR 31.14 Request

    On 20th February 2013 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

    I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

    Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

    1 The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 paragraph 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached including the information regarding the Payment Protection Insurance and charges that had been included on the account.

    2 The notice and deed of assignment

    3 The default notice

    4 The termination notice

    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

    Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

    Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

    Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

    In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.
    If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.
    You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

    In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

    If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

    Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

    I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.


    Yours faithfully


    I intend to send it today by recorded delivery.
    I've checked my statements and the last payment I made (by cheque) was January 2007
    I have the Default Notice as well which is dated February 2008, not May 2008 as the claim form states
    There are around £500 in charges too on the account, plus interest

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    I've checked my statements and the last payment I made (by cheque) was January 2007
    I have the Default Notice as well which is dated February 2008, not May 2008 as the claim form states
    There are around £500 in charges too on the account, plus interest
    The claim form you posted above says the claim was issued on February 15 2013. If your last payment was in JANUARY 2007, surely this was Statute Barred when the claim was issued. :noidea:

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingParrot View Post
    The claim form you posted above says the claim was issued on February 15 2013. If your last payment was in JANUARY 2007, surely this was Statute Barred when the claim was issued. :noidea:
    I always paid by cheque, my last payment was in January 2007 BUT after this when I tried to dispute the account they helped themselves to funds from my savings and current accounts which they applied against the card. This continued for a few months until I moved my current account to another bank. I'm planning to use this as my main point of defence, I'm sure they will come back with the additional payments, but I didn't make them

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    I always paid by cheque, my last payment was in January 2007 BUT after this when I tried to dispute the account they helped themselves to funds from my savings and current accounts which they applied against the card. This continued for a few months until I moved my current account to another bank. I'm planning to use this as my main point of defence, I'm sure they will come back with the additional payments, but I didn't make them
    The SB clock is only reset if you, or someone acting on your behalf, makes a payment. Otherwise all creditors would be making small payments themselves to keep the debts alive forever. See quote below from this thread ---> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...313#post316313

    Quote Originally Posted by gravytrain View Post
    As said it would be up to them to prove, this is the part of the act in question

    29,(5)
    and the person liable or accountable for the claim acknowledges
    the claim or makes any payment in respect of it the right shall
    be treated as having accrued on and not before the date of the
    acknowledgment or payment.

    A possible problem may be this :

    section 30

    2) For the purposes of section 29, any acknowledgment or
    payment-
    (a) may be made by the agent of the person by whom it is
    required to be made under that section ; and
    (b) shall be made to the person, or to an agent of the
    person,
    whose title or claim is being acknowledged or,
    as the case may be, in respect of whose claim the
    payment is being made.

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    so basically it's time statute barred?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    If YOUR last payment was in Jan 2007, then yes, by the time they issued the claim on Feb 15th 2013 it would have been SBd even if they paid themselves from other sources.

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Thanks for that FP
    I bought a book about small claims and it seems they MUST send out a LBA
    Which they didn't, I will include that as part of my defence

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchave View Post
    Thanks for that FP
    I bought a book about small claims and it seems they MUST send out a LBA
    Which they didn't, I will include that as part of my defence
    According to the CPR Pre Action Protocol Practice Direction, the claimant is supposed to send a LBA or letter of claim. If they fail to send one, it would affect the costs side of things, however, not sending a LBA is not, in itself, a defence.

    If you've got your dates right, then your defence would be simply that the debt is Statute Barred, which is an absolute defence. It would be up to the claimant to prove YOU made payments after January 2007, which is not the same as them exercising RoSo. :nono:

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    Default Re: Claim received for LLOYDS/TSB credit card debt

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingParrot View Post
    According to the CPR Pre Action Protocol Practice Direction, the claimant is supposed to send a LBA or letter of claim. If they fail to send one, it would affect the costs side of things, however, not sending a LBA is not, in itself, a defence.

    If you've got your dates right, then your defence would be simply that the debt is Statute Barred, which is an absolute defence. It would be up to the claimant to prove YOU made payments after January 2007, which is not the same as them exercising RoSo. :nono:
    so do I apply to have it struck out?
    thanks

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