stupidly have signed a walking possession order

[bizzybob]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

I would agree with ploddertom regarding a Regulation 46 Complaint a email the council, and tell them that as you are aggrieved by the levy, and the associated charges, applied by their Agents Bristow & Sutor (Burststitch & Suture) some not laid down in the Regulations viz transaction fees, and multiple Abortive Removal Fees, you are minded to lodge a Reg 46 with the magistrates with the council as defendant, as they are wholly liable jointly and severally for the levy and associated Brothers Grimm On bailiffs fees.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

hi thanks for your replies. Are you able to advise how i go about doing a regulation 46 complaint and also how i should word the e-mail to the council, sorry to sound dumb i am a little overwhelmed with all this and just want to ensure i am taken seriously and not just laughed off leaving me hanging out for the vultures on their return!!

[bluebottle]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

For a Reg 46 hearing, you apply on a document called an Information. This is completed and sent to the Listings Office at the court who check it and then list the matter for a hearing by a DJ or DDJ. You may have to attend the court and the DJ or DDJ may ask you some questions under oath. Once those formalities are completed, the Warrant Office can then issue a Summons against the Council.

Before you go down the Reg 46 route, could you confirm if the Council have sent you a written notice informing you that they have cancelled the AOE in accordance with Reg 41, Council Tax (Administration & Enfoircement) Regs 1992 (as amended)? If they have not, they are in the brown and smelly stuff and so are the bailiffs.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

ok here is the letter sent to me

Bailiff instruction
Council tax liability

notice period from 01.04.2011 to 31.03.2012 notice total £917.75
liability order issue date 27.06.2011
liability issue amount (includes costs)£1403.97
balance outstanding as of 21.06.2012 £917.75

Dear sir/madam
The above outstanding balance council tax arrears has now been passed to an outside bailiff company who have been instructed to collect the sum due on behalf of xxxxx xxxxxxxxx council.
Their cintact details can be found overleaf, and you must contact them directly toarrange payment.
If you have a query about your liability, please ring above number .

yours Sincerely
xxxx xxxxxxx
senior revenues officer (eves)

there is no mention of the AOE in this letter what so ever and as mentioned in my earlier thread the council are standing by the fact that they would not need to return to court and that its my responsibility to cancel the order with my employer. I dont understand how this can be as they send a legal document to the employer stating that they must pay the outstanding amount from my wages unless they instruct otherwise dont they?

[ploddertom]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

Is that the nose of a flying pig (Sus aves) or of a domestic pig (Sus scrofa domesticus) which has been propelled into flight?

I could have used another word but thought that as this is a Bailiff friendly forum they may understand what I meant without reverting to old fashioned Jack Tar English from the lowerdecks.

[ploddertom]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

The whole idea of a levy against your goods is that they could be removed and sold at Public Auction. To do so the Bailiff should levy against sufficient items of value that will satisfy the debt + all the associated costs. I'm assuming that when they say they have a levy and walking possession for the 2nd Liability Order they are using the goods listed on the first LO. Goods if removed must:
a - cover all the Bailiffs fees
b - cover the costs of removal & storage
c - cover the costs of the auction
d - cover the Auctioneers fees
e - pay a proportion of the debt owing

The goods seized in this case in my opinion would be lucky to acheive £50 maximum, there I would contend that the Bailiff only made a levy to gain a financial advantage for himself and his company. Therefore being aggrieved by the Levy gives grounds to lodge a Regulation 46 Complaint against the Council who will be named as Defendant in any action.

The format of any complaint may be similar to that below:


Mr Jo Blogs
1, High Street
Anytow
Post Code.

The Chief Clerk
xxxx Magistrates Court

Date:

Dear Sir/Madam

Council Ref: xxxxxx

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against xxxxxxx Council by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.


I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr Smith of ABC Certificated Bailiffs on (enter date) for the following reason:

* The Bailiff visited my premises and he has provided a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he has levied against a vehicle that was outside/on the drive of my home.
* This vehicle is not owned by me. I do not know the owner of the vehicle and it would appear that the Bailiff has assumed that this is my car because it was parked close to my home.
* The Bailiff in seizing this vehicle, has charged me a levy fee of £50 together with an enforcement fee of £150 and I am advised that unless I pay the amount of the Laibility Order of £xxx together with the charges associated with this levy, that the Bailiff will be attending at my property to remove this vehicle to satisy my Council Tax arreas and in addition I will also be liable for further charges for "attending to remove" and I could also be in position of being personally liable to the owner of the vehicle.
* I have written to the Bailiff Company and the local authority concerning this levy but my complaints have been ignored.

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.
Yours faithfully"

A final letter may be written to the Council first giving them a chance to sort this out + contact made with your local Councillor(s). You have to be prepared to carry this through if necessary and the downside is that I believe the application may be in the region of £200 - I am unsure if Fee Remission is permissible for this.

[bluebottle]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

Please find attached an Information Form.

From what the OP has said, the local authority has not complied with Reg 41 in that they have not sent a notice to the OP, as required by Reg 41, thereby subjecting the OP to two types of enforcement for the same matter simultaneously. That is an absolute no-no. If the bailiffs and the local authority wish to play silly buggers and not comply with the law, let it come out in a public court and embarrass both of them. I cannot see a DJ or DDJ being very happy about it.

The Listings Office at the magistrates court should be able to advise on any fees payable for Laying An Information in respect of a Reg 46 complaint.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

hi thanks for your replies. Bluebottle does this mean that the letter they sent me in post #34 is definately not substantial to show they have complied with reg 41? Should i now be looking to contact the magistrates court then? If so would this be my only option to getting this debt returned from the Bailiffs and back to the council or should i look to compose a letter to the head of revenues at the council and also send a copy to my local councillor first stressing to them my concerns regarding the issue with the AOEO and also regarding the invalid levy the bailiffs have made as well as the dodgy fees added by them, i only want to go to court as a last resort but will if it is my only option.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

hi all. Before going down the route of the magistrates filing a reg 46 againstt my council i would like to send them one last letter and also send a copy to my local counciller giving them one last chance to take my debt back from the bailiffs and allow me to pay them directly. Would you say that this is a good thing to do? Also could any of you advise on what kind of things my letter should contain? (ie legal regs that they have broken in their process of dealing with me) and also if possible are you able to advise what charges the bailiffs made incorrectly so i can also add this into my letter to the council as i am unsure having believed that these people would be honest and follow the law set out to them. Thank you all so much for your great advise and i hope you can help me with this part also.

[bluebottle]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

Basically, a person cannot be subjected to two different forms of enforcement for the same matter simultaneously.

If the Council has cancelled the AOE Order, they MUST send you a written notice advising you that they have done so before pursuing enforcement by a different method. It sounds to me that they have not done this.

You will need to write to the Council and ask them to confirm, in writing, if the AOE Order is still in force as it appears payments are still being deducted, at source, by your employer.

This would indicate to me that the AOE Order is still in force and instructing bailiffs, too, is a definite no-no and may give rise to a Reg 46 complaint.

You need to find out, one way or the other, if the AOE Order is still in force.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

the woman i spoke to yesterday at the council said that they had only been receiving payments through the bailiff which would be correct as i was on stat maternity for 39weeks. I explained to her that my dec payslip clearly shows an AOEO being deducted for council tax for which she replied the payment has not hit their system as yet and continued to say that it was my responsibility to inform my boss to stop paying it. If this was doable would more people not try this with their employer, i assumed and from what i remember reading on the letter they sent to show an AOEO had been made was that my employer was legally bound to deduct the correct percentage unless instructed otherwise by the council or if i ceased employment- this i did not do i am still employed just on maternity leave. I am going to send an email to the council again followed up with a copy in the post as my e-mail sent to the head of revenues last thurs has still not received a response!I will also inform my local councillor. Are you able to advise who is above the head of revenues at a council? thanks again

[bluebottle]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

The Chief Executive of the Council is the most senior Council officer. As for the woman at the Council, if the Council imposed the AOE Order, an employer is legally-required to comply with it. However, the Council is required to inform you, in writing, if they intend to or have cancelled the Order. They cannot just change to a different method without informing you, in writing, otherwise, there is the possibility their actions and those of the bailiff are unlawful. It sounds like the woman at the Council isn't entirely sure about the legal situation as regards enforcement action. Writing to the CEO should now be your next step.

[gorilla3]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

Thank you i have to say i did get this impression when speaking to her as she fell silent when i mentioned my AOEO then continued to back her colleague up who advised me in Jan that it was my responsibilty! I will construct my letter this evening once i have put my kids to bed and have peace to think properly! thank you

[CleverClogs]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

It sounds like the woman at the Council isn't entirely sure about the legal situation as regards enforcement action.

Writing to the CEO should now be your next step.

One hopes the CEO will not be likewise afflicted.

[CleverClogs]

Re: stupidly have signed a walking possession order

Thank you i have to say i did get this impression when speaking to her as she fell silent when i mentioned my AOEO then continued to back her colleague up who advised me in Jan that it was my responsibility!

That is plainly nonsense.