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Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

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  • Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

    Hi all, I am after some advice for my gf, she is very pessimistic about advice on forums however I often seek advice or help on all sorts of forums, hence me being.

    Here is a brief ( i will try to be) note of the situation followed by some questions;

    My gf and ex husband have been to court over financials and contact after not being able to agree on anything, she is not a strong person and he displays constant bully behaviour, his way or no way.

    Financial agreement, and he agreed to this in court, she would get the savings of £160K, £1300 per month child maintenance, and £500 per month spousal, that is alot of money however he does earn over £100k plus bonuses per annum.

    Contact agreement, she has residency in the uk, he sees the two girls every other weekend and has them for half of all school holidays, she takes them to his last residence in Guildford by 5.30 on the Friday, he drops them back to Fareham by 6pm on the Sunday ( approx 45 miles each way).

    He has never paid the spousal maintenance and the debt is currently £14k, He refused to pay the child maintenance and the CSA got an attachment of earnings so he had no choice. Caps have been after him to recover the spousal however he has recently in December 2012 moved to Switzerland, therefore outside the EU so the CSA have no way of collecting the maintenance.

    He has repeatedly ignored most of the agreements in both court orders for maintenance or contact, and only abides by the courts orders when it suits him but expects her to abide by all of it all of the time. For example he was told not to communicate anything to do with contact arrangements through the children yet continues to through the eldest 13 year old girl, causing anxiety and upset to her. He was also supposed to give 2 months notice, as she is, of any change of address, he has moved twice in the last year and only told her once the move is complete.

    He shouted in court that he wanted to see the children and demanded the time etc, yet drops them off early or doesnt have them depending on his plans.

    Due to having no fixed address in the uk for the last 6 months, the children spend their weekends with their father in hotels in and around Guildford, meaning no homework gets done etc and the often have to share a sofa bed.

    He shows all the traits of a narcissist, if any of you have had dealings with this type of person, I have in my ex, then you know their irrational and uncompromising behaviour.

    My gf, whilst i love her with all my heart , has behaved as best as she could as she is emotionally involved, I have offered support and advice as best I can.

    My jobs involve studying behaviours and personality types, so i have tried to remain un biased in any advice.

    Current situation

    He has moved to Switzerland, CSA have closed the file so no money coming in to support the children.
    She has still been delivering the children to Guildford where he books a hotel, he has demanded in his text, detailed on next line, that she will take them to an airport and they can fly to him in Switzerland, the children are girls of 11 and 13.
    He sent a text in early December detailing he would pay £2k per month , however there was a list of demands that were not livable, for example that my gf delivered the children to where ever he was in the uk, when he wanted, for a stay of as long as he wanted. If she did anything he didnt like he would deduct £500 for each thing he didnt like, plus about another 15 demands, and she was given 24hours to accept and was told it was non negotiable.

    Questions and advice please?

    Does a UK court order for contact still apply and be legal if he is now living in Switzerland? He is a uk citizen but has no UK residential address.

    Is a REMO worth while and an effective method of securing the maintenance, if so how long does it take, if not what are the other options ( bear in mind that he will only do something if he sees its in his interest to do so)

    If she communicated the ultimatum of no maintenance no contact, what are the implications, my gf wants the children to see their father as agreed.

    Any suggestions advice that may be useful.

    My advice has been to stand up to the bully and put boundaries in place that are not to be broken, for example there are both to give each other all details of flights, hotels etc if they are taking the children abroad, 3 weeks in advance of any travel so the other parent knows where the children are, he has never done this and always texts through the eldest child on the day of departure or texts my gf once he has taken them, ( he has already brought them back into the country late from a holiday and they both missed two days of school), my advice was no details no travel.

    any thoughts are welcome

    Regards

    Martin
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

    I heard of a website called Couples Europe today,it has information on it re separation/divorce for every country in EU.You might get some info on there (I don't know for sure but it's worth a look)
    I would get a decent solicitor and CAFCASS involved,CAFCASS work for the best interests of the children.
    oh and Hi and to LegalBeagles .

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

      http://www.coupleseurope.eu/

      The above website is the one Inca is talking about and thank you Inca for mentioning this as it is a useful link....
      "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
      (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

        It doesn't cover Switzerland I'm afraid as they are only associate members of the EU.
        "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
        (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

          Aaah,,,ok leclerc,,I have zero knowledge geographically and who is a member of what lol..I just saw the website on a programme today

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

            Originally posted by Inca View Post
            Aaah,,,ok leclerc,,I have zero knowledge geographically and who is a member of what lol..I just saw the website on a programme today
            It's a good link but unfortunately, we have both not helped the OP as such
            "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
            (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

              Hello Martin

              The following link (although mostly not applicable to you!) would appear to suggest that REMO does operate in Switzerland.
              http://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Div...REMO-clai.html
              Hope it is of some help.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                Hello Martin

                I'm going to start at the end. I'm a mother and a divorcee who went through years of financial stuff in court. The bottom line is my daughter and I spent Christmas together as usual this year and she never sees her father. This all came about because of financial shenanigans. My mantra is 'My Divorce Lasted Longer Than My Marriage'. Sad but true.

                Meeting in hotels is not ideal for children (who probably see it as a great adventure and an opportunity to break the rules!) but keeping in touch with your absent Dad or Mum is helpful in my humble view until they're old enough to make up their own minds.

                I sense you'll get great legal advice on this site and I'll do a little research overnight to see what I can come up with too since the absent father lives in Switzerland. Neither Fathers or Mothers should be allowed to walk away from their financial responsibilities for their children who will constantly say (when they become teenagers) "I didn't asked to be born" and I think they have a point. You only get one shot at bringing up your kids and then they're gone.

                I'll be back tomorrow :okay:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                  If you're gf has already been through the court process successfully, why hasn't he been dragged back to court for breaching.....well, everything?
                  "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                    Just a thought. Does he have a UK business? What does he do to earn this huge salary and how and where is he paid?

                    As the debt is over £750, I'm wondering if she could start bankrputcy proceedings somehow. It would almost certainly need something to get a grasp on in the UK, but it appears he's in this country a lot, hence my questions about what he does, how and where his money is paid etc...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                      Another thought - at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious: there are two completely separate issues here, ie 1) when and where he see the girls and 2) the money aspect. It is repugnant by anyone's standards for him to connect the two by saying the more he pays the more he can dictate the circumstances.

                      As a parent but not a lawyer, IMHO:

                      - their mother should decide (being ruthlessly honest with herself) what is best for the children in terms of frequency and venue for his contact with them and TELL him what those terms are. There really isn't any point in shilly-shallying with narcissistic bullies because they alway win if you do and she does have you to support her on this. If it were my children I would be very careful indeed about him taking them out of the country, particularly at this young age and certainly not without very firm ground rules. If at all possible the contact plan should be made without any consideration as to the funds he might or might not provide.

                      - I don't know for sure but it does seem likely that as a British subject he is subject to the law of the land and therefore court orders would still apply. (See Cel's post above) Would also pursue the REMO route (will certainly see if I can find out more about this). There will be many others here on this site actively looking to help you and it is to be hoped that there will be a remedy that doesn't incur you in even more legal costs. People here can advise you as to possible legal actions you can take but it is always wise to run any of your decisions past your solicitor.

                      It also may be possible to reclaim costs from the father as he is in breach of his responsibilities as determined by the courts.

                      He definitely must not be allowed to keep changing arrangements and messing the girls around - it'll screw them up.


                      Very best wishes!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                        May be of use:

                        http://www.justice.gov.uk/protecting...cial-solicitor

                        http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...ation-list.pdf (It includes Switzerland!)

                        Reciprocal enforcement of maintenance orders

                        Reciprocal enforcement of maintenance orders (REMO) is how:
                        • maintenance orders made by UK courts, on behalf of UK residents, can be registered and enforced by courts or other authorities in other countries against people resident there; or
                        • a claim for maintenance by a UK resident against a person resident in another country can be dealt with in that country.

                        REMO is also how orders made in other countries can be dealt with here.
                        The Lord Chancellor delegates his operational responsibilities as the transmitting and receiving agency and Central Authority to the REMO Unit, which is located in the Office of the Official Solicitor and Public Trustee.
                        How to apply

                        A UK resident who wishes to apply to obtain maintenance from a person overseas should contact:
                        • their local magistrates' court (or county court where the order was made) if they have an existing court order for maintenance; or
                        • their local magistrates' court if there is no existing order.

                        Countries and territories with reciprocal maintenance arrangements with the United Kingdom

                        The UK has REMO arrangements with more than 100 countries and territories worldwide.
                        Download the full list of countries (PDF 0.4Mb)
                        Conventions and agreements

                        The UK is part of several international conventions on maintenance obligations, including:
                        • the 1956 United Nations Convention on the Recovery Abroad of Maintenance
                        • the 1968 Brussels Convention on Jurisdiction and the Enforcement of Judgements in Civil and Commercial Matters; and
                        • the 1973 Hague Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Decisions Relating to Maintenance Obligations.

                        In addition, the UK has agreements for maintenance enforcement with most members of the Commonwealth and with most of the United States of America. The process involved in each case depends on the convention or agreement of which the other country is a part.
                        Obtaining and enforcing maintenance decisions in the 27 EU countries

                        The following forms are for use if you are in one EU country and you want to obtain or enforce a maintenance order in another EU country.
                        The guidance notes are for use if you are in England and Wales.
                        To apply for recognition or declaration of enforceability or enforcement of a decision relating to maintenance obligations use the following form and guidance notes:
                        REMO 7 - Application form (referred to in Annex VI of Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2009) (PDF 0.12mb)
                        REMO 7 notes - Guidance for completing REMO 7 form (Annex VI of Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2000) (PDF 0.05mb)
                        To apply for a maintenance decision or to have a decision relating to maintenance changed use the following form and guidance notes:
                        REMO 8 - Application form (referred to in Annex VII of Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2009) (PDF 0.13mb)
                        REMO 8 notes - Guidance for completing REMO 8 form (Annex VII of Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2009) (PDF 0.05mb)
                        For members of the public

                        If you are a member of the public and require more information about Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance abroad, you can find it on Directgov.
                        With effect from 18 June 2011 Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2009 (also known as the Maintenance Regulation) deals with the reciprocal enforcement of maintenance in cross-border situations between Member States of the European Union. The scope of the Maintenance Regulation covers all maintenance obligations arising from a family relationship, parentage, marriage or affinity. The Maintenance Regulation will enable a maintenance creditor to obtain a decision which will be automatically enforceable in another Member State.
                        Please be aware that pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No 4/2009, information may be collected on a debtor and/or creditor named in an application under this Regulation by accessing information from public or administrative authorities that may hold the information required.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                          Brill Labman been looking for that!:thumb:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                            Thanks we will look into the Couples Europe.

                            Cafcass were involved in the contact court appearance, as he made allegations to social services after the youngest stayed with me one weekend while my gf was away with the eldest, and she stayed in my bed, i slept on the sofa however he chose to make waves. Also the police were made aware of his abusive texts and emails so the courts got Cafcass involved, who interviewed both children to see their wishes. The irony is that because he shows narcissistic traits with one of them being no empathy, he has not sought to ansswer any of the childrens wishes, whereas we have tried to do all we can.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Some Advice on an Spouse that is avoiding paying agreed court orders

                              Hi, thanks for your reply, i will look forward to whatever you can advise.

                              Martin

                              Comment

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