Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

[razorsfishing]

Please can anyone advise. A baillif broke into our cafe premise,s to forfeit a lease while a person was on the premises who ojected.He further tried to stand in their way to stop them reaching the rear door.He was barged out of the way.We arrived following a phone call from the person on the premises.The baillif informed us we were tresspassers and that everything in the premises was now the landlords property.We were so shocked by this and at that point no notice of forfiet was posed at all.When we complained to the police they stated that there was not enough evidence to prosecute for assault but urged us to go the civil route.The police also stated that Rivington would supply the name of the perpertrator.They still have not despite numerous e mails. We have no funds as all our money was tied up in the business and building work we were carring out for the landlord.We have no knowledge of who the person was that broke into the cafe.In these circustances our insurers told us to put Rivintons name on the form4 to the court.My question is which court?
The insurers say that they will look at a claim under our legal expences up to £250,000 if we prove illegal entry via form 4 and a claim for tresspass.We have a statement from the person on the premises about the baillifs behaviour but Rivington said they have no knowledge of anyone on the premises despite the police being in contact with them.If i use form 4 which court do i send the complaint to along with the statements.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Further to the above the landord has also purchased all our kitchen equipment from the finance company despite the finance company saying the landlord had claimed them as fixtures and fittings.We now also find that all our property in the cafe and personal items laptop for the business and cash have been disposed of and the new tenant is in and has apparently bought everything we own in there to the new tenant.
Can anyone help as a matter of urgency.If so i will post my personall email if it helps.
Thank You Razorsfishing

[ploddertom]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

You say the Bailiff "broke" in, can you explain further please?

[bluebottle]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Yes. It would help if you can post up better details, please. There appears to be evidence of criminal offences on the part of the landlord, bailiff and Rivingtons.

[teaboy2]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Also a bit of back ground story of incidents between you and your landord leading up to this event would be useful too.

Where you in rent Arrears? or accused by the landlord of being in breach of the lease at anytime? As only time they can forfeit the lease in such way is if you the tenant were in breach of the lease, even then the landlord can not claim all company assets and cash only what is owed to them of granted to them by caught which is usually seixing goods to a value of xx pounds or cash as an alternative to seizing goods.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Yes. It would help if you can post up better details, please. There appears to be evidence of criminal offences on the part of the landlord, bailiff and Rivingtons.

Sorry i am furious right now and got in front of myself. At approx 6pm in the evening just after my partner and i left the premises fully locked with one of our empoyees still on the premises cleaning the kitchen.He heard a loud banging a few minutes after we left.He went to the front door lifted the roller blind to see two people breaking the lock off.He shouted and sceamed at them.They stopped and then carried on forcing the entry despite our employees protests.On entering the cafe one of the men told him that he was a bailif and was forfeiting the lease.Our empoyee immediately phoned us.We arrived less than 3 minutes later.Our employee told us what had happened and that they refused to leave.He also stated that he had been assaulted and that he was total distressed and the person who had entered told him he was tresspassing and he must leave the premises which my employee refused to do.We then told the person to leave he refused saying that he had forfeited the lease(At that point when we arrived no notices had been posted on either door and he had not started the paperwork for the notices)we told him what he was doing was illegall as our solicitor had written to us advising a few days earlier that the landlord could not levy or distress or forfeit.He refused to listen and he then told the locksmith to carry on despite our protests.We had to get back to the house to see to our grandchildren who were staying with us so we moved outside he then posted a notice.The following morning we complained to the police.The response from them was that Seaford intelligence (they admitted after on investagation there was no such thing)had informed them we had been made bancrupt a week earlier (absolutely untrue) and refused to investigate.We complained to Rivingtons they refused on several occasions to give the persons name and still do.Despite assurances from the police that they would.When we spoke to our so called solicitor he said he would not take the case without funds despite me pointing out his e mail stating the landlord could not do what he had done. Our insurers inform us they will only look at a claim for trespass.After many months and stress they now inform us we would be covered on our legal expences clause in the policy up to £250.000 if we could prove illegal entry.Not them us!!!
The police are a waste of time as are our solicitors.Rivingtons still refuse the information and threatened to fight us denying knowledge of anyone on the property despite the police investigation into it and their assurances to the police that the persons name would be given to us on request.We now after months of trying to get the insurers and police to take ation because all our funds were in the business finding out that we could complain to the court about what the baillif did and his illegal behaviour.As Rivintons refuse to now even acknowledge our emails our insurers loss adjuser legal side told us to put Rivingtons name on the complaint.Fine you may say. Form 4 states that you have to complain to the court where the baillif is certified if indeed he was. Our problem is who do we name on the complaint and to which court.We know the entry was illegal and not peaceable and all the information on the net states catagorically that a forfeit cannot take place while a person on the premises objects as was blatently the case here coupled up with the following assault on one of our staff.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Regarding the above.We are only at present looking to prove illegal entry by the baillif.Our insurer will then look at the claim for loss as a whole and persue for total loss under our legal expences clause in our policy if we are successful and the judge rules in our favour!! They will not do so unless we prove the baillif or Rivingtons acted illegally in this matter.The events leading up to it are complicated but its an ofset of rent against building work.We need to get a judgement on the entry not if rent was or was not owed.
What i need to do is complain on form 4 to a court with Rivingtons name on the complaint as they still refuse to give us the name of the baillif if he is one.If we do put Rivington on the complaint to which court do we complain to? Or just go to the court locally in our case Lewes Sussex.

[bluebottle]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

If Rivingtons refuse to identify the culprit, name the company on the Form 4 and make it clear they refused to co-operate in naming the bailiff. Looking at this purely as a retired policeman, this case has Fraud written all over it. I would certainly ask for the name of the locksmith and report him to the Master Locksmiths Association (MLA), who are not going to be best-pleased one of their members was involved in the commission of a criminal offence. However, please bear in mind that if the locksmith is expelled from the MLA, it is unlikely he will be able to find work as a locksmith and may find it difficult to find work, full-stop. I would be inclined to make a complaint to the IPCC about the failure of the police to investigate the matter and the losses you have suffered as a result.

[ploddertom]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

On the face of things it certainly does appear that the entry was illegal, however do you have pictures of the damage caused? Did the Police examine the damage? Were there any other independent witnesses to what occurred?

As far as the Bailiff Co are concerned it would appear that they only have 2 Certificated Bailiffs one registered at Manchester & the other at Cardiff. If they still refuse to name the person involved then I suppose you could file a complaint at each Court but it may be that they instructed another nearer to where you live.

Although it may not reveal who it is you could always submit a SAR to them, unfortunately this does give them 40 days in which to reply. It is a legal requirement which if they refuse puts them in breach of the Data Protection Licence which you can report to the ICO - start an action in the County Court asking them to enforce the requirement. For this I assume you were trading as a Sole Trader!

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Thank you for your response i do not feel now so isolated.This landlord seems to think he is Rackman?We are owed cosiderable funds from the work on other premises by this man.He had already taken some money against rent early on and its shown on the rent staement thus proving agreement between parties and yet still denies this and other verbal agreements.He took advantage of me being ill to forfeit against my partner using an archiact law that is under revue as we speak.He tried to do a walk in possetion a few weeks before for three times the amount owed in rent.Fortunately the attending baillif (from Rivingtons phoned his office and was fully aware of the work we had done for the landlord and left without even trying to do a walk in possetion. We wanted to agree things and get on but no the landlord saw the opportunity to avoid paying us and foreited the lease.We had a solicitor who put it in writing via e mail when i expressed our concerns that the landlord could not levy and distress or forfeit so we should not worry.When i told the solicitor he said he wanted approx £20,000 upwards possibly total of £40,000 to take it on despite his assurance before the event that it could not happen. Never once has an legal person told us that the forfeit was illegal in the manner it was carried out or told us about the form 4. Believe it or not it was a baillif who came to our aid stating that the entry was illegal and all other actions by the landlord or his agents then also become illegal as well.We are looking at losses and damages of over £200,000 if successful here.We do not have the funds to fight this but if we get a judgement against either the person who did this or Rivingtons then our insurers would look to recover all loss through our legal expences clause in our policy which is up too £250,000 of cover.
On top of all of this the company who financed the brand new kitchen for us informed us the landlord had claimed the new kitchen as fixtures and fittings and less than two weeks after the event sent a statatory demand even though we had never missed a payment. £40,000 we had paid them with a balance of £13,000.On the morning of the hearing they informed us they had sold all the kitchen to the landlord for a paltry £3000 and then the judge refused to hold up the stat demand. They then appealed to the high court who found in their favour and they applied for a bancrupcy hearing and regisered it with land registry preventing us selling the house and i had to find a further £7,000 to get an agreed settlement to avoid tthe possibillity of them succeeding in their quest.We could not take that chance?
I am trully gratefull for all your responses but really i am only concerned that we make no mistakes with the form 4 at this moment as i think anyone can see it definately was an illegal entry.Once we prove that the rest should fall into place and we can gt this crooked landlord to court.

[alham]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Maybe this link will help. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...icated-Bailiff --- is your landlord a county, district or local authority - if they are I have a nice story about East Sussex goings.

[alham]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

"On top of all of this the company who financed the brand new kitchen for us informed us the landlord had claimed the new kitchen as fixtures and fittings and less than two weeks after the event sent a statatory demand even though we had never missed a payment soe £40,000 we had paid with a balance of £13,000.On the morning of the hearing they informed us they had sold all the kitchen to the landlordfor a paltry £3000 and then the judge refused to hold up the stat demand. They then appealed to the high court who found in their favour and they applied for a bancrupcy hearing and regisered it with land registry preventing us selling the house and i had to find a further £7,000 to get an agreed settlement to avoid tthe possibillity of them succeeding in their quest." - statutory demand would be issued if they get a wind of bankruptcy. Landlord can't claim something as a fixture or fittings on a whim - have a look at your original lease. What was the basis of their appeal? Did you get a chance to defend it?

[teaboy2]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Yes i think the best course of action would be to issue a court claim for breach of lease agreement, contract and fraud. That way all other issues here will also be dealt with at court too. Though i suspect you will need some help wording your claim properly. You should also speak to your local trading standards about the action of the landlord too as they may be able to help you too.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Bluebottle you seem to have a better handle on your advice, thank you.Thank you all.I do not need any information other than that surrounding the entry and i do not want to make any mistakes regarding the form 4 and give them any reason to be able to avoid paying for what these people did to us.At present the person who was in the cafe is making a statement to atach to the form 4.Not the police statement but a detailed one about the entry in complete minor detail.We also have another witness from the shop opposite that saw the two people tampering with the lock and the person in the premises shouting at them.We hope she is willing to put it in writing but i think that we already have enough to prove the illegal entry.Section 6 of the law act clearly states that it is an offence to enter a property to forfeit while a person on the premises objects to the entry.The fact that the person inside claims assault further compounds the ations of the perpatrator in this as he had no right in the first place to enter with a person on the premises.
I believe that to be correct Bluebottle any action once the baillif or whoever it was enterered while there was a person objecting the resulting assault becomes more serious as he breached the door and then assaulted a person lawfully going about his business at his place of work.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

I am awaiting responses from Rivingtons for the name and also Seaford police as well before finally filling in form 4.