Birth certificate name

[Shadowcat]

Daughter is expecting a baby in September and her other half decided when she was 4 months pregnant that it was 'all too much for him' or something and went AWOL for a while. Now that we've paid a significant amount to resettle her in a lovely little flat, guess who's back on the scene? Anyhow, we are in two minds as she only ever wanted a family and not to be a single parent so although we haven't welcomed him with open arms due to other things he has done, we accept her choice. Our question is they are not married and she seems to want to give baby his name but as his family are quite wealthy and he has a bit of a control streak in him, will she still have the same rights if his name is on the birth certificate and not hers - i.e. will they be able to easily take the child away out of spite if the relationship doesn't last if the child has his/their name? We need to protect her interest as much as we can, he can be nasty (not violent though thank goodness).

[labman]

Re: Birth certificate name

If the unmarried father jointly registers the birth with the child's mother, he'll automatically acquire parental rights and responsibilities towards the child. The mother will retain hers.

[leclerc]

Re: Birth certificate name

Daughter is expecting a baby in September and her other half decided when she was 4 months pregnant that it was 'all too much for him' or something and went AWOL for a while. Now that we've paid a significant amount to resettle her in a lovely little flat, guess who's back on the scene? Anyhow, we are in two minds as she only ever wanted a family and not to be a single parent so although we haven't welcomed him with open arms due to other things he has done, we accept her choice. Our question is they are not married and she seems to want to give baby his name but as his family are quite wealthy and he has a bit of a control streak in him, will she still have the same rights if his name is on the birth certificate and not hers - i.e. will they be able to easily take the child away out of spite if the relationship doesn't last if the child has his/their name? We need to protect her interest as much as we can, he can be nasty (not violent though thank goodness).

Whoever registers the birth will decide on the surname of the child. If the father does not attend the registering of the name then his name cannot go on the birth certificate at that time and it would be registered as father known. Both your daughter and him will have joint parental responsibility if his name is on the birth certificate. If it is not then he can only gain that usually via the courts. If they split up, ultimately the legal process involved is merely about what is in the interests of the child at that time it happens. Hope that helps.

Below is the link to the direct gov bit on parental responsibility:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/...hts/DG_4002954

[Shadowcat]

Re: Birth certificate name

Thanks guys. So basically, no different to if they were married. As for his family affording fancy solicitors in any custody battle - that would happen regardless of wedlock I guess. That's the worrying bit because these people can be spiteful and are on the ST Rich List so we worry for our daughter. Thanks for your input and the link is fantastic.

xx

[Nikolai]

Re: Birth certificate name

If they are not married, my view is that your daughter is the only one with parental responsibility. The father can acquire it, but only by agreement with your daughter, or by order of the court. Unless he is obviously unsuitable (unsavoury character, serious criminal record, violent, mentally unstable.....take your pick) the court will usually award PR to an unmarried father who applies for it. The surname of the child or the name on the birth certificate don't matter in my opinion.
If they are married, both parents automatically have PR.
Also, if they were married, your daughter would be entitled to a substantial share of his assets (assuming he has any) if they ever divorced.......or is that just me being too cynical for words?

[labman]

Re: Birth certificate name

If they are not married, my view is that your daughter is the only one with parental responsibility. The father can acquire it, but only by agreement with your daughter, or by order of the court. Unless he is obviously unsuitable (unsavoury character, serious criminal record, violent, mentally unstable.....take your pick) the court will usually award PR to an unmarried father who applies for it. The surname of the child or the name on the birth certificate don't matter in my opinion.
If they are married, both parents automatically have PR.
Also, if they were married, your daughter would be entitled to a substantial share of his assets (assuming he has any) if they ever divorced.......or is that just me being too cynical for words?

Sorry, but this is incorrect. The information given above is absolutely spot on.

[leclerc]

Re: Birth certificate name

If they are not married, my view is that your daughter is the only one with parental responsibility. The father can acquire it, but only by agreement with your daughter, or by order of the court. Unless he is obviously unsuitable (unsavoury character, serious criminal record, violent, mentally unstable.....take your pick) the court will usually award PR to an unmarried father who applies for it. The surname of the child or the name on the birth certificate don't matter in my opinion.
If they are married, both parents automatically have PR.
Also, if they were married, your daughter would be entitled to a substantial share of his assets (assuming he has any) if they ever divorced.......or is that just me being too cynical for words?

The bit in bold is the bit that both Labman and myself disagree entirely with. If there is a disputed parentage then a DNA test can be the result. The only way parental responsibility can be removed once gained is via adoption where previous parental responsibility is effectively removed indefinitely(by that I mean that PR would be removed until such time as the child reaches majority and no longer requires there to be PR, ie 18 years old).

[Nikolai]

Re: Birth certificate name

Hey guys, we're not talking about disputed parentage or about removing PR - I stand by my post. An unmarried father does not automatically have PR, but can acquire it.

[leclerc]

Re: Birth certificate name

Hey guys, we're not talking about disputed parentage or about removing PR - I stand by my post. An unmarried father does not automatically have PR, but can acquire it.

I do not dispute that PR can be gained either by mutual consent or by court order. However, I am stating that the bit in bold is not correct. Can you source that information so I might take a look?

[Nikolai]

Re: Birth certificate name

This is just my experience of the practice of family courts over the years. The court will want to know if there is anything about the unmarried father's character which would make it inappropriate to award him PR. If there is nothing adverse the court will take the view that a PR order should be made, but will take into account the mother's position and views before making a decision. A family court welfare officer is often used in such cases if there are objections or difficulties.
The fact that a child bears the father's surname is not of itself evidence that father has PR. If both unmarried parents register the birth together, father gets PR, but the problem then is that father has no order or agreement to prove this and that is a difficulty when dealing with authority.

[leclerc]

Re: Birth certificate name

Nikolai, you rarely see me backtrack on forums but I am going to concede that the manner in which you presented the above issue in bold was the bit that was disagreeable. I had a quick look on familylawwiki and it is slightly more expressive(so to speak).

http://wiki.familylorefocus.com/parental+responsibility

The bit about certain examples where PR will be refused.

[labman]

Re: Birth certificate name

I find the jury is still out for me before I concede lol!

The issue of a father's PR is to do with who registered the birth - on that we are all agreed. Surely there must exist a record in the Registry of Deaths, Births and Marriages which would provide solid evidence for a father to claim PR.

[Nikolai]

Re: Birth certificate name

If it's the birth certificate route to PR for an unmarried father, it seems the only thing he can produce as evidence of his PR is the birth certificate itself. (This only applies for births registered from 1/12/03.)
Not everyone in an official position will realise the significance.
The father may wish to have a separate document confirming the position, such as a PR Agreement or a court order granting him PR. It's for the father to decide what he requires in each case.
Perhaps I could have expressed myself better at the start - it wasn't my intention to be disagreeable.

[labman]

Re: Birth certificate name

Lol! Don't worry Nikolai even if you were in disagreement. It's the amicable, healthy debate of these things that leads to the facts and makes this forum stand apart from others. I guess me saying, "this is incorrect" isn't exactly over welcoming either.

I think we're all actually agreed on this despite our various postings, it's just the way things have been expressed.