Halifax Credit Card Help?

[IcanIwill]

I have recieved this letter..Whats are you thought on this? Shall i offer a full and final? Will they lay off me and just accept my monthly instalments as they have no CCA?

Okay sorry for the delay in my response. My scanner is playing up so i will type the letter word for word.

Dear Mr XX

Further to your letter dated 29th December 2011,at the moment we are not able to provide a copy of the original signed agreement,however we can confirm that our procedure has always been to obtain our customers signature to an agreement containing a prescribed terms before entering into a credit card agreement containing the prescribed terms before entering into a credit card agreement. As such, we are confidant the agreement remains enforceable.

By providing you with documents attached to our previous letter,we have satisfied our obligation to provide a copy of executed agreement under section 78.

However even if an agreement us unenforceable, the contract still has legal effet and is not void, thelender is merely prevented from getting an enforcement order from the court. it has always been our process to ensure that anagreement complying with the CCA requirements would have been signed by the customer before setting up a credit card account. Should this matter proceed to court we will adduce evidence to confirm this.

If you are using the services of claims managment company we would like to remind you of the warnings issued by the ministry of justice and citizens advice bureau. You can find more details about both at.

www.justice.gov.uk/new/newsrealease170209a.htm
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press20090217

I refer you to a quote from the ministry of justice that reads 'Businesses that mislead the public claiming they can arrange for unpaid loans, credit cards or other debts or other consumer debts to be written off have been told to stop or face action.

We would like to remind you of recent warnings issued by the OFT who recently issued a press release with Ray Watson, director of the OFT consumer credit croup stating
'consumers have a right to information on debts they owe, but it is important they they realise that theses sections of the act cannot be used to write off legitimately owed debts' The OFT have also issued a reminder that even if a agreement was to become unenforceable, customers will still owe any outstanding money to the lender, intrest and default charges can still beadded to the loan and any failure to pay could effect their credit record.

Yours Sincerely

Anne P Gartshore

[shamen]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

I think the key is here

thelender is merely prevented from getting an enforcement order from the court
(emphasis added)

Unless something has changed since I last looked into these things, the inability to get an envforcement order means that the court cannot compel you to pay the debt. an example problem could be;

Company A says 'you owe me money. we cant find the form you signed, but you owe us it as we always take a signature and our word is gold'
Person B says 'Erm, i dont even remember that debt, is it possible that someone has used my name fraudulently? Can I see the forms with the signature on'
Company A huffs and puffs and threatens court action knowing full well that they cant recover a debt without proof the debt was incurred by the person being sued

They have written as much to you in their letter, albeit downplaying it by saying 'merely prevented from getting an enforcement order' - they are saying they cannot get a court to compel you to pay this debt. Albeit 'merely'

If the debt is yours and you have admitted as such to the lender, then the above scenario isnt really useful. There have been (and im sure someone will correct me if im wrong) instances of courts making judgements in the favor of the claimant when the other side admits the debt was theirs, even if the claimaant cannot product a signed CCA. Meaning a debtor stands up in court and admits they ran up the debt, but state they dont wish to pay as the creditor cant find the original agreement - that approach is bound to fail.
However if the debt is not yours and you really dont know what is going on then id file any further correspondence under the dustbin as it seems like they dont have a leg to stand on.

[IcanIwill]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

Thanks for the advice you have given,

Well i suppose if i pay every month i am taking acceptance of the debt, I am not here for debt avoidance merely some breathing space they send me at least 1 letter per week.

[shamen]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

ok, so as things stand you are making payments towards a debt. They are threatening you with further action, but also saying they dont have a valid agreement to enforce in court. This means they would rely on the fact you are paying the debt as acknowledgement that you incurred it if it were ever to go to court. As i said earlier, im not overly hot on what the exact cases were, but i recall seeing some where that happened. Im sure if im wrong someone will pipe up and say why

If they are on your back for more money, pay what you can afford. give them a income/expenditure sheet and show them the amount you are offering to send is all you can afford. Send the money regardelss of their resposne - if they take the money they are accepting your payment terms. It would be very difficult for them to then take you to court for non payment when;

a) they have no signed agreement
b) you are paying the debt off
c) they are accepting your payments based on the payment schedule you have offered them

Courts tend to not look to brightly on cases where a debtor is taken to court for not paying a debt, when infact they are paying a debt but just not at a level the lender is happy with

Its also a good idea to try to get interest frozen, if you have not already. If I were in your shoes, id be ackowledging their letter where they state they have an un-enforcable agreement and offer to come to an arrangement. Halt all interest and fees on the account for a monthly payment of £20. Of course, the amount will depend on your circumstances and also id get advice from others on here first before taking just my word for things. im a bit rusty at the debt business

[IcanIwill]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

Yes well i am planning on replying asking them what they intend on doing next? Selling my debt on? Taking me to court or go down the route of offering a full and final settlement to them or just pay them £10 a month for the next 10 years

Cheers

[shamen]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

Getting a 'what will they do next' answer from them will be very hard. Ideally they want the debt paid, yesterday, in full. Any other action they take will be in pursuit of that goal so they will not give you information as to what they will accept or not. You maybe able to negotiate a full and final, but be aware that when doing so, if they refuse it, they know that you have at least the amount you offered in full and final available to pay towards the debt.

Personally, id be sending them a letter saying something like 'All I can afford is X per month and cannot afford to pay this debt if interest and charges will accrue. Please accept my offer of a payment plan and freeze the interest on this account. Enclosed is a cheque for the first payment amount and please let me have your bank details so i can set this payment schedule up as a standing order.'

Im not sure how it is now, but it used to be the case that if they cash the cheque they have accepted the offer of payment terms. You will probably still get letters but carry on making the payments as you have offered, until either the debt is paid or you cannot afford it any more and re-address the situation then.

Im sure there will be other views from other members of the forum along the lines that you can probably stop paying and everything will be fine, but i never advocate debt avoidance. I always advocate paying off ones debts at an affordable rate that does not cripple financially. Companies will huff and puff in attempts to get more from you but they can only have what you can afford at the end of the day.

[IcanIwill]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

yeah i take your point i am going to see if i can claim any unfair charges back and then offer them full and final! will keep paying them what i can afford or the time
being!

[Guest]

Re: Halifax Credit Card Help?

Hi
If they have admitted they do not have an agreement then they will have problems enforcing.
They could easily prove that an agreement existed of course (statements would do that). The issue would be, could they show it was ever properly executed and signed.
This they could do by the use of witness statements, it has to be remembered that the case need only be proven on the balance of probabilities
If you are going to go down this route you would have to make a positive assertion that no agreement was signed.
Having said all that it is a high risk strategy for the creditor and not many are willing to chance their arm at getting an enforcement order without a signed agreement.
This can give you some leverage if you want to either arrange a settlement of instalment plan.
If you do intend negotiating a full and final settlement a good idea is to get the check paid to them via a third party, this forms a new contract. Enclose a letter saying that this is a full and final settlement and if for any reason they did not agree the check must be returned.
Peter