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1st Credit Ltd

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  • 1st Credit Ltd

    As this is my first ever post on Legal Beagles I would be grateful for advice on this matter based on fact or actual previous experience of similar circumstances.

    My wife had a Bank of Scotland/Halifax One credit card, which due to me being out of work she defaulted on back in May 2009. This was about the time that we wrote to Halifax to reclaim under hardship rules, unfair charges levied on the account since 2005.

    We had no response at all from Halifax and no correspondence from anyone regarding this matter or the fact that we had not made a payment, until a Statutory Demand was issued in August 2011 by 1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited, who it transpires, purchased the debt and were assigned it by Halifax in July 2011. We were never notified of this assignment.

    1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited are a company listed at Companies House as “DORMANT”, therefore none trading. My question is how can they transact the purchase and issue a Statutory Demand as a ‘none trading’ organisation?

    During and since we unsuccessfully attempted to have the S.D. dismissed (thus incurring further costs), all correspondence has come from 1st Credit Limited and Connaught Collections, which (according to their letterhead) is a trading style of 1st Credit Limited, a different company to 1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited.

    Connaught Collections have now proposed we settle the full defaulted amount over three years subject to us agreeing to a charge on our property. When we requested that they send us a copy of the wording of the charge and in particular how it would be discharged once the debt was repaid, the replied saying that the would not divulge this information until we agree to accept the charge on our property. How can we be expected to agree to something when we do not know fully what it is we are agreeing to?

    Can anyone confirm that this is acceptable practice for a debt collection agency?

    Many thanks,

    Onetotalk
    Onetotalk
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: 1st Credit Ltd

    Status: Active
    Date of Incorporation: 10/03/2009

    Country of Origin: United Kingdom
    Company Type: Private Limited Company
    Nature of Business (SIC):
    6523 - Other financial intermediation
    Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
    Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2010 (DORMANT)
    Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2012
    Last Return Made Up To: 10/03/2011
    Next Return Due: 07/04/2012

    Status at top is active. Accounts filed up to 2010 showed dormant, but accounts filed up to 10/03/2011 were active if I'm reading this correctly.

    So they served a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy in August 2011 on the back of a dodgy assignment. All future credit has been from 1st Credit or Connaught. 1st Credit have already received a formal warning for issuing Statutory Demands as a threat, rather than with a real intent of following them through. It costs nothing to issue a SD, but to actually make you bankrupt would mean them incurring significant costs, possibly to gain nothing.

    I can't believe 1st Credit are not linked in some way to the company that served the SD (who should be reported if they're not pursuing it).

    Just a point of clarity please - if you are convinced 1st Credit and Connaught are not linked to 1st Credit (Finance) 3 Ltd, have they now assigned the debt again to 1st Credit, and if so have you received any notification of this?
    Last edited by labman; 23rd February 2012, 14:26:PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 1st Credit Ltd

      They're linked - same registered address. 1st Credit have no fewer than 15 companies registered under 1st Credit variations at Companies House (2 dissolved), without Connaught etc...

      This includes 1st Credit (Finance) Limited 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8!

      This is going to make life more complicated in terms of tracking down what has happened. However, and excuse if this is a stupid question, but I assume you've been through the entire process of actually getting them to prove you owe the debt, to prove their good title to ownership of the debt etc...?

      I certainly would not agree to a charge on my house until you know exactly what you are dealing with.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 1st Credit Ltd

        Connaught Collections, is simply a trading style of 1st Credit.
        They are NOT a legal entity in their own right!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 1st Credit Ltd

          Thanks for your input Labman, you have obviously looked at the Companies House website but my understanding is the return made 13/03/2011 is the annual return listing the officers of the company and not a set of accounts showing that they are trading.

          Also I can confirm that 2 months after we requested the usual evidence under the CCA, they sent a dodgy photo copy of an agreement with my wife's signature pasted on it (not very well lined up). It is my understanding these day that they no longer have to produce a signed 'True Copy' anyway.
          Onetotalk

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 1st Credit Ltd

            Likewise Angry Cat, thanks for your input. Connaught Collections are a legal entity and are registered at Companies House as Connaught Collections UK Ltd but for reasons known only to themselves choose to correspond only as Connaught Collections a trading style of 1st Credit Ltd (as per their letterhead)
            Onetotalk

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 1st Credit Ltd

              Hmmm...... possibly. I'll dig a little further!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                Not much money:

                Free company financial check on 1ST CREDIT (FINANCE) 3 LIMITED. Free company accounts. Companies House information

                Plenty of activity and registered with ICO:

                1ST CREDIT (FINANCE) 3 LIMITED :: OpenCorporates

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                  Thanks Labman,

                  This confirms that the company is Dormant but what is lthe legal position with them trading in 'debt Collection' albeit through 3rd parties?
                  Onetotalk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                    My understanding is that if they are dormant, they are not allowed to trade. I am not 100% certain of this. See below from HMRC website:

                    What does dormant for Corporation Tax mean

                    Dormant is a term that HMRC and Companies House use for a company or organisation that is not active, trading or carrying on business activity. But HMRC and Companies House use the term dormant in slightly different ways.
                    For Corporation Tax purposes, HMRC views a dormant company as a company that's not active, not liable for Corporation Tax or not within the charge to Corporation Tax.
                    A dormant company can be, for example:
                    • a new company that's not yet trading
                    • an ‘off-the-shelf' or ‘shell' company held by a company formation agent intending to sell it on
                    • a company that will never be trading because it has been formed to own an asset such as land or intellectual property I assume this could also include debts?????
                    • an existing company that has been - but is not currently - trading
                    • a company that's no longer trading and destined to be removed from the Companies Register

                    This may mean they are compliant with the law?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                      Originally posted by Onetotalk View Post
                      Likewise Angry Cat, thanks for your input. Connaught Collections are a legal entity and are registered at Companies House as Connaught Collections UK Ltd but for reasons known only to themselves choose to correspond only as Connaught Collections a trading style of 1st Credit Ltd (as per their letterhead)
                      Business Name Company Registration Number
                      1st Credit Limited 3752940
                      Public Notices:
                      Stage Date Document Link Event Number Notes
                      Requirements Imposed 25/02/2009 6
                      Categories:
                      Consumer credit
                      Credit brokerage
                      Debt collecting
                      Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:
                      No
                      Trading Name(s) (Current):
                      Connaught Collections
                      Debt Help Services
                      Issued Date:
                      05-Sep-1999
                      Date Maintenance Payment Due:
                      23-Sep-2014
                      Legal Formation:
                      Body Corporate (incorporated inside UK)
                      Current Individuals that run the organisation:
                      Name Position
                      Charles James Trevenen Holland
                      Simon Gerald Dighton
                      Historic Individuals that run the organisation:
                      Name Position
                      Andrew Richard Burgess OFFICER
                      Charles James Trevenen Holland OFFICER
                      Michael John Cleary OFFICER
                      Najib Nathoo
                      Simon Gerald Dighton
                      Nature of Business:
                      Other
                      Current Address(es):
                      Address Type Address
                      Correspondence The Omnibus Building, Lesbourne Road, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 7JP
                      Principal Place Of Business The Omnibus Building, Lesbourne Road, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 7JP
                      Registered Office Hill House , 1, Little New Street, LONDON, EC4A 3TR, United Kingdom
                      Historic Address(es):
                      Address Type Address
                      Principal Place Of Business 60, Lombard Street, London, EC3V 9EA
                      Principal Place Of Business 7TH Floor Hillgate House 26, Old Bailey, London, EC4M 7HW
                      Principal Place Of Business Enterprise House, Bancroft Road, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 7RP
                      Registered Office Hill House 1, Little New Street, London, EC4A 3TR
                      Registered Office Hillgate House 26, Old Bailey, London, EC4M 7HW
                      Registered Office The Quadrangle,180, Wardour Street, London, W1V 3AA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                        WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information

                        Many DCA's and other firms have dormant companies, it's not unusual.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                          Thanks for the contributions so far, but referring to my original posting, can anybody shed any light on the legality of them demanding that we agree to their terms, before they will divulge the actual terms you are agreeing to.
                          Onetotalk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                            Firstly, I would ask them for a Certified Copy of the agreement. Although the Carey judgment allows them to provide reconstructed or reconstituted agreements, they cannot refuse to provide you with a Certified Copy if you so request them to provide one.

                            What they are asking you to sign sounds like a legal document, in which case you are entitled to see what it is BEFORE you sign it and are quite right in thinking that you should not sign it until you know what it involves.

                            Give this bunch of credit cretins something to think about -

                            1. Report their behaviour to the OFT Consumer Credit Licensing Department, heading your letter FORMAL COMPLAINT and laying it on thick. If the OFT have received other
                            complaints about their behaviour, your complaint may well be the one that triggers enforcement action against them. DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE MAKING A COMPLAINT
                            AGAINST THEM;
                            2. Ask them for a Certified Copy of the agreement and make it clear you will not accept anything other than a Certified Copy;
                            3. Press them for a copy of the agreement they want you to sign. I would mention what they are trying to do in respect of this to the OFT in your complaint letter.

                            Would you please let us know how you get on.
                            Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 1st Credit Ltd

                              Originally posted by Onetotalk View Post
                              As this is my first ever post on Legal Beagles I would be grateful for advice on this matter based on fact or actual previous experience of similar circumstances.

                              My wife had a Bank of Scotland/Halifax One credit card, which due to me being out of work she defaulted on back in May 2009. This was about the time that we wrote to Halifax to reclaim under hardship rules, unfair charges levied on the account since 2005.

                              We had no response at all from Halifax and no correspondence from anyone regarding this matter or the fact that we had not made a payment, until a Statutory Demand was issued in August 2011 by 1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited, who it transpires, purchased the debt and were assigned it by Halifax in July 2011. We were never notified of this assignment.

                              1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited are a company listed at Companies House as “DORMANT”, therefore none trading. My question is how can they transact the purchase and issue a Statutory Demand as a ‘none trading’ organisation?

                              During and since we unsuccessfully attempted to have the S.D. dismissed (thus incurring further costs), all correspondence has come from 1st Credit Limited and Connaught Collections, which (according to their letterhead) is a trading style of 1st Credit Limited, a different company to 1st Credit (Finance) 3 Limited.

                              Connaught Collections have now proposed we settle the full defaulted amount over three years subject to us agreeing to a charge on our property. When we requested that they send us a copy of the wording of the charge and in particular how it would be discharged once the debt was repaid, the replied saying that the would not divulge this information until we agree to accept the charge on our property. How can we be expected to agree to something when we do not know fully what it is we are agreeing to?

                              Can anyone confirm that this is acceptable practice for a debt collection agency?

                              Many thanks,

                              Onetotalk
                              Your debt has been purchased by 1st Credit Ltd. Check the purchase date on the letter you got from them. If this is correct, the debt has been cleared. If 1st Credit purchased your debt, for pennies on the £, without informing you first or ascertaining in writing if you could pay them back, or setting up a new civil law contract with you, then happy days. the debt as been cleared. There is no more debt, 1st Credit LTD (A THIRD PARTY COMPANY) have paid it. Now contact Experian and put a note on your credit file stating a third party company paid the debt for you without another contract between you and them in place. I suggest you may like to send 1st Credit LTD a thank you card from WHSMITHS .

                              Erick

                              Comment

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