Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

[fondantfancies]

Hi All,

I recently had a debt collector write to me about a supposed debt on a credit card. I did not have a card of the type cited, and could not recall any debt of the value claimed (circa £900) so did not immediately respond.

The firm persisted, so I did a bit of further research which indicated that it might in fact be a store card I once held (which may have been rebranded by a new lender, though since I hadn't had a card in the new format, or any correspondence pertaining to the 'rebranding' that I can recall, I didn't immediately pick up on this).

I then tried to contact the solicitor acting on behalf of the debt collector - H Cohen - (the claim had by now been escalated to the county court) but every email I sent was bounced back by postmaster - both the contact info on the solicitors stationery and their website was incorrect. I also looked into making a 'goodwill' interim payment on the solicitors website, but the online account would only allow full settlement which I could neither afford, nor felt inclined to pay until the matter of validating the debt had been fully addressed.

I then acknowledged the claim formally with the County Court, asking for the extra 14 days allowed to prepare a possible defence, and wrote to the debt collector saying that if the debt was indeed relating to my store card and if they could provide evidence that they had taken on said debt, I would be prepared to pay £50 a month until the debt was settled, in the interests of avoiding a CCJ. (I also pointed out the incorrect contact info given by their solicitor, the very short-time frame in which the debt had been escalated to court, and my fairly vulnerable financial status i.e suspected it was unlikely a judge would award more than I was offering).

Got a terse reply today saying that unless I pay the amount in full by the date stipulated on the original claim form I WILL have a CCJ entered against me. No explanation for the incorrect/false solicitor contact details, and no further documentation issued to 'prove' that they have taken on the debt - they simply enclosed a copy of the first letter they had sent me titled 'Assigment of Debt', though since it is from the debt collector and not the store card company I'm not clear what legal 'clout' it has.

So questions:-

1/ Is this 'Notice of Assigment' sufficient to prove a debt if it doesn't come from the original lender.

2/ Would the court likely be sympathetic to me given a) the short time frame over which the debt was escalated to court b) the erroneous contact details from the solicitor and c) my offer to pay without the need for court action, providing the debt is proved.

3/ Has anyone ever had an application for a CCJ against them refused or suspended pending maintenance of an agreed repaying programme?

I am really peeved about this as the whole thing happened over the bank holiday weekend making it impossible to speak to anyone and essentially forcing me to respond to the Court Papers with a defence just to be on the safe side - I knew there wouldn't be time for me to write to the relevant parties and get a response before the first 14 days were up, and sure enough, their wasn't.

Advice gratefully received.

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

What date was the claim served on you ?

You haven't yet entered a defence just an acknowledgment with intent to defend in full ?

Cohen's have to show that you do actually owe the debt to them and that they have a legal right to claim the money from you.

If you can type up the particulars of claim from the claim form that would be of help (leave out your account number if there's one there). Then we can look at whether you should enter a holding defence asking the court to allow time for Cohen's to send you the relevant paperwork (Notice of Assignment, Original Credit Agreement etc)

Also who do you think is the original creditor ?

1) No, you should have had a default notice from the original creditor and a 'goodbye' letter from them first.

2) Yes, lack of preaction protocols, lack of information given, offer to pay really would only mean he would probably order payments at the level of your offer if your offer is appropriate in line with your income/expenditure, as you didnt have a repayment plan in place before they took court action.

3) Some cases the creditor discontinues when they can't provide the info, but most cases they do, and the case goes on to get an installment order under a CCJ.

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Hi again,

1. The issue date of the claim was 16th August - however I didn't get it till late the following week, just pre-bank holiday weekend, and only had till 6th Sept to respond. And I was away 1-5th Sept, so was in a really difficult position regarding turnaround time for responding. Hence the main reason I entered an acknowledgment only.

The Claimant is 'CL Finance' who say they are owed monies under an agreement between me and Santander Cards. The claim form says a 'Default Notice' has already been served (date not specified - I honestly can't remember whether it has or not).

I do not have a Santander Card, but this could conceivably be a House of Fraser storecard which I am behind on repayments. However, when I asked CL Finance to verify this (i.e. that HOF = Santander) they did not do so.

2. Yes, I've entered an acknowledgement only so far, with poss intent to defend in full. I have until 20th Sept to enter a defence.

3. The notice of assignment is dated 22 July. I am still not clear what the value of this document is since it doesn't come from House of Fraser, just from the CL Limited people who allege to have taken on the debt. I do not recall any 'goodbye' letter from House of Fraser - even if there was, CL Finance and Cohens have not submitted this to me when I wrote to ask for proof of them taking on the debt following filing of this claim. Again, I just got another copy of the same 'Notice of Assignment' on their own notepaper.

I'm really confused about who I should even be corresponding with TBH, having had letters from CL Finance, Lewis Debt Recovery (at the same address) and H Cohen.

Finally, I have actually got repayment programmes going with a number of other creditors, following a period of redundancy about 4 years back, so it is really, really important to establish whether this is the store card I suspect, or some other lender who is already getting a regular payment.

One more question - the repayment I offered CL Finance was actually around the same level as the normal monthly payment on the store card - so how will that look in court that they have rejected it? If it came to a detailed formal income/expenditure exercise I suspect they would be getting considerably less than my offer, so why on earth didn't they take it?

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Hiya,

Okay House of Fraser was G E Money - which is now Santander.

New HoF cards are Santander.

So I'd say you have guessed right.

But you should not have to do this detective work to work out what this claim is for, there should be a papertrail - something from Santander to say they took over G E Money and so on.

Does the account number quoted on the POC (if one) match the account number of you HoF defaulted account ?

Ame
xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Okay Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - View Single Post - CL Finance/Howard Cohens, HELP! is a useful defence, have a read through the full thread there too, should give you most you need to know, and any questions at all just shout on here.

You'll need to do a full SAR (subject access request) and a CCA request to Cohen's (you can find an example of this in sticky guide at top of this forum ~~ Consumer Credit Act ~~ - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum )

Also have search on Cohens on here and you'll find a number of people who have dealt/are dealing with similar issues.

Ame
xx.

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Ok - just found an old 'House of Fraser' card statement - it has the same number as the claim form, so is definitely them.

The card itself (which expired in Feb and was not renewed) says 'GE Bank' .



Thank you for the links. They are really useful - I had no idea the claimant needed to provide all that info on a claim form.

Clearly, though they have provided some of the information required, a fair amount is still missing.

Should I also make reference in my defence to the fact that I made a repayment offer on the condition they provided evidence of the claim being legitimate, or should I not mention that at present?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
One more quick question - I sent my 'acknowledgement' via normal mail.

Do I also now have to submit my defence in this manner, or could I switch to doing it online if I preferred?

Many Thanks.

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

It is really best to do it online for nothampton bulk claims - you will probably need to enter the defence in writing now though - but have a check on moneyclaim.

You did send the acknowledgement to the court ~(northampton I assume) didn't you ? (not Cohens)

I wouldnt mention the offer at this stage.

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Yes - the acknowledgement was sent to Northampton CC, not Cohens or CL

Have just discovered from your link that the Notice of Assignment from a debt collector is not the same as the 'assignment' itself, which should come from the original lender via RD - definitely didn't ever get one of those!

Will enter the basic defence as suggested, and contact Cohens/CL to request the documentation (Default, Assignment) they should have supplied but didn't.

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Cool Keep us updated, and any help you need just shout.

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Thanks very much for taking the time to help with this.

[WendyB]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

As far as you know, does the amount on the N1 equate to roughly the same amount as you think you actually owe?

Another thing to bear in mind, are there any charges for late payments/bounced DDs/overlimit fees on the card? If so, you may be able to claim these back/use them in your defence as a means to reduce the balance outstanding.

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Wendy - I think the card debt was originally about £700 - £750. There have been about £250 - 300 added in charges, late payment fees, interest etc - however, I'm not sure if this was by the original creditor before the (presumed) passing on of the debt to a DCA, or whether the DCA added them later - will need to dig out old statements to be sure. The court claim has not sought to add any interest as yet, though there are the solicitors costs already included as part of the total, which seems a bit cheeky given a) no-one forced the DCA to instruct a solicitor so very quickly and b) they haven't actually won yet!!

Question - I've filed my holding defence already. I'm now requesting the pertinant legal info from Cohens. Should I also forward CL Finance a copy of the request? And should I make Cohens aware of the earlier offer of a repayment programme to CL (which was put forward on the basis they confirmed who the alleged debt had been purchased from, with appropriate proof).

[WendyB]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

I would think you can get the balance reduced by reclaiming the charges. Not sure if you would need to do this separately or as a counterclaim though...

[fondantfancies]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

Update.

I sent the standard SAR/CCA/any documents pertaining to this case request to Cohens.

I have now had the following response.

'We can confirm that a request has been sent to the original creditor for a copy of your account documents, however as you have failed to pay the fee for your request of documents, these documents will only be provided once we have been ordered to so by way of a court order.

Therefore if you require the documents you refer to in your letter dated 20th Sept without the need of a court order you must pay the Subject Access Request Fee of £10'

I am confused by this, because reading other threads on here regarding similar matters I had got the impression that once court proceedings had been initiated, the claimant had to supply the documents, whether or not a fee had been paid.

Should I go ahead and report Cohens to the court for not supplying the requested material? And will this automatically result in a court order being initiated, or is that a completely separate procedure that I need to start in some other way (and if so, how?).

Also, I am getting fed up with writing letters and emails to Cohens/CL Finance asking for the same information over and over again. This is taking a considerable amout of my time. Can I start billing them, or can I initiate some sort of counterclaim, or get a reduction of any balance that may be owed in light of this?

[Amethyst]

Re: Questions about a claim against me/possible CCJ

you can send a CPR 31.14 request asking for the information you require. The SAR and the CCA should have gone with the £10 and £1 fee respectively. In the letter they wrote back, did they identify who the original creditor was?

The problem with CPR 31.14 is you can only request documents which they rely on in their Particulars of Claim. So if the POC was woefully inadequate and doesnt mention agreements or default notices etc you can't get them, and you are left with continuing the embarassed defence as in reality you have no idea what this debt is and have had to undertaken a fair bit of detective work to find out what it COULD be.

Documents referred to in statements of case etc.

31.14

(1) A party may inspect a document mentioned in –
(a) a statement of case;

(b) a witness statement;

(c) a witness summary; or

(d) an affidavit(GL).

(e) Revoked.


(2) Subject to rule 35.10(4), a party may apply for an order for inspection of any document mentioned in an expert's report which has not already been disclosed in the proceedings.

(Rule 35.10(4) makes provision in relation to instructions referred to in an expert’s report)