Private School Fees-Help

[Turnover]

Hi,

We found things really tough last year and ended up owing several terms of fee's to a private school regarding our two children. We have also been charged the last term even though they where verbally prevented from attending.

They have now, through their solicitors, instigated legal action. Both me and my wife have been sent claim forms for the whole debt (around £16K).

Now due to other debts I am talking to an IP about entering an IVA. My question is if I enter the debt into the IVA what happens to my wife? Are they able to continue the legal action against her even if they are forced to accept an IVA proposal for the debt, assuming that I get the necessary support from my creditors?

Any help appreciated.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Now.... I could be wrong but I thought all of your creditors had to agree to an IVA or it doesn't happen?


ahhh here

For an Individual Voluntary Arrangement - IVA to be approved, creditors will be called upon to vote either for or against the arrangement. If only one creditor votes "for" the Individual Voluntary Arrangement - IVA, the Individual Voluntary Arrangement - IVA will be approved. However, if only one creditor votes against the Individual Voluntary Arrangement - IVA and they represent less than 25% of your total debt, the meeting will be suspended for a later date and other creditors who did not vote will be called upon for their vote.


So they would have to vote to be part of it and then the debt is taken care of so I would assume that they would leave your missus alone... but someone else should answer that, ask your IP about it.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Hi Turnover

I really sympathise with you, as several years ago our daughter was at Private School . She had an accident at school and fractured a small bone in back whilst at school and she was off for 8 weeks, following this she was ill with Glandular Fever, then this follwed a severe depression and she lost almost 2 years of schooling. Her experience at the hands of the teachers was devastating for her as they were bullies. In the end we could not get her to attend school and had to pull her out at short notice. I have to tell you she is now at University and is doing OK.

According to the T &C's we signed you have to give a terms notice. Which they of course they invoiced us for. We also went to solicitors and were intending claiming that the teachers bullied her, and that she was unable to return to school. They were not sypathetic, and neither would they reduce the fees despite going to a solicitor.

The moral of the story was, we ended up paying the solicitor the same amount again as the fees that were left outstanding so it was like a double wammy. The solicitor advised us after jamming up his fees against counter claiming as he said our case was not water tight and we did not have any real proof of the bullying.

It has now ended up we have a charging order on our house and it will stay there untill one day when we move.

The agrevation was a horendous nightmare, my advice to you is to try and come to an arrangement with the school solicitors, either let them have a charging order or similar or offer a sum of money each month and that would save you going for an IVA, unless you are already so much in debt that, that is the only way out for you personally.

If you have a lot of debt and you are intending going the IVA route you would need to make an offer to your creditors, have you tried doing this without an IVA. It may be sensible to complete an income and expenses sumary http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ead.php?t=5102 and post it up on this thread so that we can see what sort of help we can advise you on.

You may also have bank, credit card or mortgage charges or may have a miss-sold PPI policy and it may be possible to reclaim some or all of these charges. It may also transpire that due to your personal circumstances that you may qualify for hardship under the FSA waiver rules on bank charges and this may help you also.

I am not sure about your wife and the IVA, I will let someone else advise on that part.

Just another point have you checked the original application at the school, the terms and conditions, did you both sign?

Tuttsi

[Turnover]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Thanks for your reply. The IVA is my last chance. HMCE are owed around £200K and are the biggest creditor. Nothing is set in stone atm but I hope to have an interim order in place soon. I'm just wondering what defence to come up with if they continue with the court action with my wife.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

There is always the strong possibility that if the revenue will not agree with the sum offered at the IVA and as they are your largest creditor that could push you into a forced bankruptcy. Once you hit bankruptcy, you will most definately lose your bank and credit card accounts. You may be able to have just a basic bank account.

Do you have any idea at this stage what you can afford to put forward at the IVA as a percentage of your debts and over what period to offer your creditors?

Do you have any asset of value that are unemcumbered?

Do you have sufficient equity in your home, if you sold and moved to something much smaller to pay off your debts?

Tuttsi

[Turnover]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Not much idea atm as I haven't got any contact with the proposed IP yet. He has been on holiday. My accountant has done some of groundwork for a large fee. More info next week. I have to come up with a deal that suits HMRC. If not I'm stuffed. If it means chopping employees then so be it. Not something I want to do but needs must asd they say.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

IVAs - Pros v Cons

• Pros
• Interest and charges are frozen.
• Monthly payment is based on what you can afford.
• Debt free in 5 years.
• You will pay no direct fees. The Insolvency Practitioner will collect his fees from your contributions to the creditor.
• No more creditor contact throughout the term of the arrangement.
• Avoid all of the unfavourable stigma and restrictions of bankruptcy.
• Legal action and collection action will stop.
• Compels you to address your financial management issues.
• Removal of the temptation to get further into debt.

• Cons
• Require a minimum debt level of £15,000.
• In order for the IVA to be agreed, you require approval to the value of 75% of the unsecured creditors .
• Your home and assets may still be at risk if the creditors decide not to exclude them.
• You may find getting credit in the future more expensive. Creditors will assess your risk level based on your financial history.
• You will not be able to use your store or credit cards. These will be cut up.
• You will normally not be allowed to borrow any more money until you have successfully completed your arrangement. It may however be possible to change an existing mortgage or take a new one while you are in an IVA .
• If the IVA fails as a consequence of you not meeting your obligations, it is likely that you will be made bankrupt.

Look at the last CON before you go ahead with the IVA, and see if you can come up with informal agreements like Tuttsi suggested with your creditors xxx

[Turnover]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Your points noted. I'm not looking at this lightly. It is all about survival.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Have you spoken to CCCS? Sorry! I know IVA's are way better than Bankruptcy but if we can find you a way of not being in an IVA we will xxx I am also on the point of IVA /bankruptcy so I have looked at all the options and I am trying to come to private repayment plans first.

[Turnover]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

I have spoken with CAB and national debtline. They bascially said go away because I'm a soletrader with some business debt as well as personel debt. Then tried business debtline. They suggested that an IVA maybe the only route out as the revenue would want the debt paid off much quicker than I can manage. I then looked at the IVA as a route and to be honest it looks like a good route to take. Bankruptcy would be a much easier way out but then I won't have a business or a wage.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Well as I said in my previous post the IVA is only good if your offer is large enough and it is over a very short period of time to satisfy your main creditor being the Inland Revenue and that they accept your offer- otherwise it will definately be a forced bankruptcy. The Revenue are not usually very accomadating at the best of times and these are your largest creditor from what you have said.

Also, you really do not know what is going to happen with the school fees and the court documents which you have now received which implicates your wife as well owing the £16K, this on it's own could bankrupt both of you. Have you checked the forms you signed with the T&C when the children were accepted at the school. This is very importantant that you investigate this to ensure whether both of you were party to the T&C of the conditions surrounding school fees

I just hope that your accountant and the person helping you with the IVA can help you to work out a plan allowing you to proceed to a satisfactory conclusion. I am sure you will have to bring in all debts owed within the IVA and that will include the school fees - then where does that leave your wife as she has already received court papers, you cannot ignore this fact.

[WendyB]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

Is it tax or VAT that you owe HMRC or both? Because I have to say that VAT have more powers than anyone, and if they send the bailiffs in etc they are only obliged to leave you with the tools of your trade and the clothes you stand up in, unless this has changed substantially recently. If you are a sole trader then you don't have much protection as your liabilties are not limited to the business as they would be if you were a ltd company. Sorry to b doom and gloom. Also should point out that trading whilst insolvent is illegal.

[Turnover]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

will be getting contact with the IP hopefully tomorrow. Then I can ask what he suggests re the school fees and the court action. Got to have a carful look at the fee notes and T+C's tomorrow.
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Sorry that last post was a reply to Tuttsi. It is VAT, PAYE, everything. I been down the road already with bailiffs. Had to buy my own van back. Never want to have to do that again. I thought "trading while insolvent" was only illegal if a limited company.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Private School Fees-Help

I looked this up on the internet these are frequently asked questions from the Insolvency Service regarding insolvency. You may or may not already have come accross this already.

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/cib/faqs.htm

With Ltd companies you are protected unless you have given personal guarantees, with a sole trader such as yourself you run the risk of being made bankrupt if the IVA fails.

I was playing arround with figures and even if the Revenue will accept a payment plan - what period would they be happy with. Over say a 6 months period on £200K = £33,333.33 per month and that is notwithstanding that there may well be other creditors which will increase the monthly figure, are you able do you believe that you can find that sort of money.

Please let us know what the IP says in relations to these issues and indeed the T&C's for the school.

will be getting contact with the IP hopefully tomorrow. Then I can ask what he suggests re the school fees and the court action. Got to have a carful look at the fee notes and T+C's tomorrow.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Sorry that last post was a reply to Tuttsi. It is VAT, PAYE, everything. I been down the road already with bailiffs. Had to buy my own van back. Never want to have to do that again. I thought "trading while insolvent" was only illegal if a limited company.