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  1. #1
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Posted on MSE today - regarding wwww.bank-smart.co.uk

    Its these people
    usiness Details

    Business Name:Symmetric Systems LtdAddress:First Floor, Western HouseTabernacle StreetTown/City:
    County: CornwallPostcode:TR1 2EJTrading Names: Bank-Smart
    Bank-Smart
    Debt-Smart
    Sectors:Financial products/services,
    Personal Injury,
    Authorisation Number:CRM4036

    seangenius
    MoneySaving Newbie


    Join Date: Mar 2009
    Post Count: 1
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    I disagree completely, and contest that this is a geniue posting. In my opinon the company symmetric systems t/a bank-smart are [removed opinion]. They tried to take me to court for disputing their cancellation fee after I cancelled their service

    They lost their argument against me after their claim was dismissed by the judge because their terms where ambigous and badly written and there was no case to justify their fee.

    They claim to do work for 10 % on a no win no fee basis this is set out in their terms of engagement letter but their terms and conditions where clearly different. It clearly stated if you claim falls within a certain value they will see a minimum fee of £150+VAT. When I refused to pay they added £50.00 for a debt collection fee (which wasnt included in their claim) and when it was going to court add on £150 for a processing fee. The court case reference was 8QZ17000 and was held in Croydon County court on 16th March 09.

    I would strongly advise that you avoid this company and do it yourself. I intend to obtain the judge's decision in writing and post on here for all to see.

    Also it is important to note that on their website they claim to be dealing with £100,000,000 of claims. [edit: statement removed as incorrect] due to being a small company they are exempt and has an acid ratio of .83 also they have no phone no in which you contact them.

    [edit removed personal opinion]

    Last edited by Amethyst; 1st July 2009 at 10:06:AM.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  2. #2
    Timesearch's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Amen Amethyst You are so Right!!!!!
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:02:PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    I am having the same problem with bank smart. I would be very interested to see the judge's decision. Look forward to seeing it
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:02:PM.

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    Paule's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Quote Originally Posted by kelvinmjones View Post
    . Look forward to seeing it
    Its been posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    their claim was dismissed by the judge because their terms where ambigous and badly written and there was no case to justify their fee.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:02:PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    I'm in the same situation. I cancelled 2 claims that they did absolutely nothing with in over 9 months and incurred their cancellation fees which I have refused to pay.

    Since then they have passed the "debt" to 2 seperate debt collection agencies, both of whom have passed the case back to Bank-Smart after I refused to pay.

    This dispute has been going on for over 12 months now, and personally I can't wait for Bank-Smart to take me to court for their cancellation fee
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:03:PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    hi, am having problems with bank smart as well. I have 3 cases with them, the first one was payment protection, they claim to have settled the case with the bank refunding about 370 pounds out of which they took their 10 percent and charged me a minimum fee of 116 pounds leaving me with roughly 200. till date I have not received my settlement from the bank.

    i wrote to them to enquire when and how, they said within 6 weeks, its been over 10 weeks now. when they sent me an invoice for the addition amount, i told them i could not pay it at once, so they have allowed me to pay in 12 instalments.

    the second case, they claim to have recovered about 460 pounds and have sent me another invoice of 105. i went bullistic. it was never clear to me in their terms and conditions that i would be charged these fees, and i think it is unjustifiable for the amounts they are claiming.

    the accounts with the banks have been closed, and i have moved home. i am no longer in touch with these banks. i sent them an email that since you have been corresponding with them, why dont you forward my address to them so i can recive settlements in good time. till date i have not received a response.

    i have not received any settlements and am stuck with charges from the amounting to over 300. i need advice. thanks
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:03:PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Quote Originally Posted by d_oxcb View Post
    hi, am having problems with bank smart as well. I have 3 cases with them, the first one was payment protection, they claim to have settled the case with the bank refunding about 370 pounds out of which they took their 10 percent and charged me a minimum fee of 116 pounds leaving me with roughly 200. till date I have not received my settlement from the bank.
    Ask them for the claim number in court for this and ask the bank to confirm that they refunded £370.00 and tell bank smart that you are making sure the bank did do what they are supposed to do as you are suspicious of them for obvious reasons(banks' that is).
    i wrote to them to enquire when and how, they said within 6 weeks, its been over 10 weeks now. when they sent me an invoice for the addition amount, i told them i could not pay it at once, so they have allowed me to pay in 12 instalments.

    the second case, they claim to have recovered about 460 pounds and have sent me another invoice of 105. i went bullistic. it was never clear to me in their terms and conditions that i would be charged these fees, and i think it is unjustifiable for the amounts they are claiming.
    Is this a bank charges case? How did they recover £460.00? Was it via hardship which is not a full and final settlement and if so they should be able to provide the breakdown of charges plus the offer letters from the bank?
    the accounts with the banks have been closed, and i have moved home. i am no longer in touch with these banks. i sent them an email that since you have been corresponding with them, why dont you forward my address to them so i can recive settlements in good time. till date i have not received a response.

    i have not received any settlements and am stuck with charges from the amounting to over 300. i need advice. thanks
    I think you need further information direct from the financial institutions themselves.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:04:PM.

  8. #8
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    I have emailed bank-smarts legal guy and asked him to get a customer services guys name and contact over to me so we can try help get this sorted with you.

    Whether they respond or not is another matter.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th June 2009 at 18:04:PM.
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  9. #9
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    I have asked for copies of letters/emails to back up these posts.

    thread Bank-smart now charging me! - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

    and another Bank charges - miniumum fee rip off and other questions - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums


    The main issue i think is the bankruptcy threat.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 26th July 2009 at 00:52:AM.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  10. #10
    Sapphire's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    They'll make better reading than a Jeffrey Archer novel.

  11. #11
    Tools's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Originally Posted by Tools
    Using the 30% calculation, if the amount of debt to be written off is £2500 or above (which most are), that would leave you owing them at least £750 in "fees".

    This amount is the trigger for being able to issue a Statutory Demand (SD) if you are unable to pay them.

    For anyone who isn't familiar with a SD here are some of the extreme consequences of having a SD enforced against you and a better explaination than I could give. Please read it in full and ask yourself, is it really worth paying someone to "write off your debt" ?

    http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/...ory_demand.php
    Set of BAST*RDS, apologies for the language.
    Any opinions I give are my own. Any advice I give is without liability. If you are unsure, please seek qualified legal advice.

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  12. #12
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    For information:

    Stage Cancellation Code Fee Documents Received STG01 £99 + VAT Statements Requested STG02 £99 + VAT Partial Statements STG03 £150 + VAT Processing* STG04 £150 + VAT Charges Calculated STG04B Full Comm. Incl. VAT With FOS STG05 Full Comm. Incl VAT With Solicitors STG06 Full Comm. + Costs Incl VAT Any Other Stage STG0X Full Comm. + Costs Incl VAT subject to a minimum of £99 + VAT Example Costs

    Client support (Email/Post/Telephone)
    Affiliate payments
    Premises
    Staff, consultants and solicitors
    IT systems
    Depreciation of assets related to claims management
    Other central services
    Postage and packaging
    Directors/SMT cancellation meeting and decisions
    Cancelation investigation
    Statement request charge
    Cancellation of LOA
    Creation of physical file, filing and cancellation
    Creation and updating of online accounts and testing
    Bank contact and negotiations and/or acquiring updates/chasing statements
    Letter creation, login, statement req, + online account etc.
    Solicitor, court and allocation fees
    Legal team commission (3%)
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  13. #13
    Nicky Bodmin's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Hi Guys,

    I am having the same problem with Bank-Smart.

    I had several claoims with the company.Three paid out I never had a penny out of these. The amount paid was around £400 plus they kept the lot.

    Then they sent invoices for accounts that not been agreed by the bank or card company nor from the FOS.
    I have even been taken to court for claims on my bank for a fee that was no way 10% nor even been processed at all.

    I complained to Bank Smart. NO REPLY I got my accountant to put it in writing they ignored his questions and complaint. I was bill by accountant £500 for that work.
    Bank Smart went ahead to court and gained judgment because I was ill the courts ignored my request to adjourn Bank Smart got judgment and went for a charging order.

    In the mean time I terminated my contract first in April 2009 right through to todays date. I haqve over 80 emails from them asking for payment. They have just aknowledged that the MOJ are looking ointo my complaint and they would contact me with out come.
    Few weeks later they sent a letter with a response to MOJ saying that MOJ have said to cancel the claims not covered by CCJ.
    They sent a bit of paper lol with a few lines on it making it sound like it was from the MOJ. No name no address no nothing only the lineage.
    Today I had more emails saying they were going to go for bankruptcy and take my house through the charging order they have. LOL thats a joke cause the judge adjourned the hearing for the charging order because B-S paper work was not in order. That was 2 yr ago. No other application was made for the charging order. They are twats. I said go ahead do it, but first I want copies of the letters from the MOJ they had been sent because I have nothing saying they have given a final response or any thing. I told B-S I want proof.

    GUESS WHAT at 2 this morning I had an email saying it was a mistake and the MOJ had not completed their investigations.

    What Lyers.
    I am about to apply to set aside Judgment so can I plaese have the details of the case that was won agaisnt them on their T and C becauser they have done me on all counts on them.

    No Win No Fee but they chaqrged me.
    10 % was not charged but 40 % plus
    so many more breaches of contract.
    Theft for money that was due to be returned to me on 3 of my claims.
    And the constant harrassment for debt that went when I terminated my dealings with them.
    I have served them with a notice under DPA to stop processing inacurate information they ignored that.
    How can I stop these peolpe

  14. #14
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    ............r because B-S paper work was not in order.
    Nuff said lol

  15. #15
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    CMC's graduate from the same College of Bovine Excrement as DCA's lol
    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    (Apologies to Curlyben for nicking his oft-used & wonderfully descriptive phrase lol)
    Last edited by charitynjw; 19th April 2011 at 07:24:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  16. #16
    Nicky Bodmin's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Hi Guys,

    Its me again. I have had another 50 emails from Bank Smart they have tried to get me to open new claims with them They are thick. I as of 9 May 2011 put my complaint in the hands of the ICO for Data Protection issues.

    They have continued without my permission to gain my files from my bank or from the old claims that had been terminated and with an email from them confirming this. I have emailed them 20 times telling them its a breach of sec55 1 of the Data Protection Act This is now a criminal offence and get this I( had a treatening email yesturday telling me to stop with lies that Bank Smart are commiting a criminal offence and if I dont stop I will be in trouble.

    They are going to add fee for all my canceled claimes to the charging order and sell my house.
    I told them when I canceled all dealings with them this terminates all the T and C and all the orignial contract details so they cannt hold me to any contract terms because they have gone.

    I am being threatened on a daily basis.

    I have had 150 emails from them

    Advise please

  17. #17
    leclerc's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Bodmin View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Its me again. I have had another 50 emails from Bank Smart they have tried to get me to open new claims with them They are thick. I as of 9 May 2011 put my complaint in the hands of the ICO for Data Protection issues.

    They have continued without my permission to gain my files from my bank or from the old claims that had been terminated and with an email from them confirming this. I have emailed them 20 times telling them its a breach of sec55 1 of the Data Protection Act This is now a criminal offence and get this I( had a treatening email yesturday telling me to stop with lies that Bank Smart are commiting a criminal offence and if I dont stop I will be in trouble.

    They are going to add fee for all my canceled claimes to the charging order and sell my house.
    I told them when I canceled all dealings with them this terminates all the T and C and all the orignial contract details so they cannt hold me to any contract terms because they have gone.

    I am being threatened on a daily basis.

    I have had 150 emails from them

    Advise please
    Email filter: Block sender. That will stop receipt of them and should they decide to use pen and quill then job done. You can't respond to an email you haven't received, can you?
    "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
    (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

  18. #18
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Have you told the banks you have withdrawn authority for bank smart to act on your behalf ? If not it may be an idea to do so.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    I am in a bother with Banksmart as well. 1st i took out a reclaim with them back 2009 and nothing has happend to i ignored them and left at that. couple days ago i recieved an email asking me to pay for accounts. i have since asked them for a break down but just keep getting a pdf of a letter i signed 2009 and their T&C. they have not provided enough information from beginning only on current events that every knew from the news.

    please can any one help. as they are askin for 130 each for two different cases.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Could you possibly scan and post their claimed T&C for people here to study, as well as what they claim to have done that was worth £130, at which people here may guffaw?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Symmetric Systems Limited trading as Bank-Smart (the “Company”)
    TERMS & CONDITIONS (v8.1)
    FOR LARGE PRINT VERSIONS OF THIS DOCUMENT SEE Bank-Smart will claim back your Payment Protection Insurance (PPI). Mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance? | Reclaim your bank charges | Bank penalty charges | Credit card charges | Mortgage Penalties | PPI premiums | Council Tax | Financial Ombudsman Assistance | Banking Ombudsman Assistance

    1. The services provided by Bank-Smart shall consist of one or more of the following:
    1.1) The evaluation of a potential claim due to the client in respect of the unfair charges or excessive fees applied to
    their account, insurance or other policy, tax fees, or other credit and finance related products including claims
    for financial mis-selling or any other claim(s) with companies authorised by a Letter of Authority or other
    claim authorised by you.
    1.2) Preparation of a claim valuation, calculation of interest where applicable and/or any other relevant claim
    documents required to issue a legal demand for payment to the Third Party.
    1.3) Negotiating and settling the claim with the Third Party or providing sufficient assistance for the client to obtain
    settlement.
    (The Third Party means any person, firm or company that provided the Client with an account, policy, bill, or
    other service which is subject to review by the Company, or any party that the Client believes has caused a
    personal injury or other disadvantage or financial penalty/mis-selling.)
    2. Your obligations and the fees payable
    2.1) You agree that the Company is fully authorised to act on your behalf to make a subject access request under the
    “Data Protection Act 1998” and/or “Consumer Credit Act 1974” and to act on your behalf to recover all unfair
    charges applied to your account, policy premium or other claim/refund over the last 6 years or 5 years for
    Scottish accounts or for any period for which is allowable by law and may result in a higher settlement being
    provided by the Company. You agree that any fee requested by the Third Party following a request for
    information which is allowable by law (and not exceeding a value of ten pounds per account/policy/financial
    product) will be recovered from you if paid by Bank-Smart on your behalf initially.
    2.2) You agree that once the Company has started the claim process on your behalf with the Third Party, the
    Company’s standard fee as set out in condition 2.8 of these terms and conditions will apply to any settlement,
    debt write off/reduction or other benefit agreed upon with the Third Party through either the Company or you
    personally, settlement direct from your bank/financial institution or through another claims management
    company and you authorise settlement to be paid direct to Bank-Smart whether or not any settlement is referred
    to as a gesture of goodwill or otherwise.
    2.3) Once the Company has started the claim process, in the event that the Third Party issue a settlement directly to
    your account or reduces your debt with them by the same amount, or other benefit, you agree to contact the
    Company within 14 working days and pay any monies owed to the Company under the terms of this agreement
    within 14 working days of said compensatory deposit or acknowledgement of settlement.
    2.4) We reserve the right to make a processing charge of up to a maximum of one hundred and fifty pounds (in
    addition to our original fees) if we have to take legal action to recover our fees from you. This charge will
    apply to each court claim issued against you in the event that you fail to pay our fees and court action is
    required to recover them from you.
    2.4.1) We reserve the right to charge a fee per invoice (in addition to our original fees) if we have to instruct
    third party collectors to recover our fees from you. The fee charged will be based on a sliding scale as follows:
    Invoice Value: £0 - £99.99 = Collection Fee: £10; Invoice Value £100 - £249.99 = Collection Fee: £25; Invoice
    Value £250- £749.99 = Collection Fee: £40; Invoice Value: £750 + = Collection Fee: £75.
    2.5) You agree that you will inform the Company within 14 working days of receiving any correspondence from the
    Third Party in relation to the claim that the Company is making on your behalf and that you agree to the Third
    Party supplying documents direct to Bank-Smart.
    2.6) You agree that if you reach a settlement with the Third Party after the date of signing our letter of engagement
    that our standard fee will be applicable plus any legal costs incurred by the Company.
    2.7) Subject to the provisions of condition 2.8, you shall pay each invoice submitted to you by the Company in full
    and cleared funds within 14 working days of receipt.
    2.8) Due to the complicated nature of the claim and the expenses involved, we charge the following fees:
    2.8.1) Twenty five percent of the amount the Third Party agrees to pay in settlement of the claim or deduct
    from any debt you have with the Third Party plus VAT, subject to the recovery of our processing costs* plus:
    2.8.2) costs** which includes VAT, all court costs and legal fees (requested from the Third Party by the
    Company where legal action is taken to complete the claim) and such fees will be deducted from the final
    settlement payment received from the Third Party, or will be paid to Bank-Smart by you within 14 working
    days of receiving settlement should payment be made directly to you or your debt with the Third Party be
    reduced by the same amount or other benefit.
    2.8.3) Any company you claim against may charge you up to ten pounds for the provision of
    statements/agreements and if they are unable to deduct this from your account we may pay it on your behalf
    and invoice you for the same amount.
    *Our basic processing costs are based on the expenses we have incurred during the process of your claim. We
    will always try to mitigate these costs where possible and you can contact us at any time for the up-to-date
    incurred in processing of your claims. **Where legal proceedings are required to settle your claim we will
    charge for the preparation of the legal documents of between one hundred and fifty and four hundred and fifty
    pounds dependent upon the complexity of the claim. If the Company determines that the value of your claim
    will not reasonably cover the costs of such preparation we may discontinue your claim after giving written
    notice to you. In any event written authorisation will be required from you before such preparations will be
    carried out by the Company.
    2.9) The costs payable under condition 2.8.2 will either be deducted from the final settlement received or be
    payable by you (should payment from the Third Party be made directly to you or your debt with the Third
    Party be reduced by this amount). You agree to authorise payments to be made direct to Bank-Smart under
    reference EC.2.1.
    2.10) You agree that in the unlikely event that your claim is not settled before the date of any hearing scheduled to
    address this matter you will attend said hearing in person at the required court. In the event a hearing is
    scheduled and required to be attended, the Company will contact you prior to the hearing date to confirm your
    attendance. Failure to attend the said hearing will result in a failed claim and you will be responsible for all
    applicable costs.
    2.11) The Company will deliver invoices during the course of the claim for our fees (as set out in condition 2.8)
    whenever a settlement from the Third Party is made (whether or not such payment is in part settlement or full
    settlement) and for the avoidance of doubt further invoices will be issued whenever any further settlement is
    paid, your debt reduced by way of settlement or other benefit received by you.
    2.12) You agree to cover our reasonable processing costs plus VAT per claim plus all court costs and legal fees
    (where such fees have been paid on your behalf). A full list of our basic processing costs can be obtained by
    request at no cost by emailing [email protected], by writing to 11-15 Betterton Street, Covent Garden,
    London, WC2H 9BP, or by visiting the Company website.
    2.13) Due to the complicated nature of the claim and the tactics used by financial institutions to delay claims, the
    total time taken for claims to complete can vary greatly. For this reason, timescales are given only as a guide
    to averages only and you must understand that claims, particularly for personal current accounts, could take a
    long time to complete and you agree to be bound by these terms until completion or cancellation having paid
    the cancellation fee in full. Success is in no way guaranteed or implied.
    2.14) You shall co-operate with the Company in all matters relating to the claim and in particular respond to the
    Company’s correspondence as soon as reasonably practicable or you may incur further costs.
    2.15) Without prejudice to any other right or remedy it may have, if you fail to pay the Company on the due date for
    payment, the Company may:
    2.15.1) suspend services on all or some of your claims until payment has been made in full.
    2.15.2) forward to a third party debt recovery company at a further cost per invoice (see term 2.4.1).
    2.15.3) issue court proceedings for the recovery of the debt plus £150 administration and all applicable costs
    and interest.
    3. Liability
    3.1) This condition 3 sets out the entire financial liability of the Company (including any liability for the acts or
    omissions of its employees, agents or sub-contractors to the Company) in respect of:
    3.1.1) any breach of this agreement; and
    3.1.2) any representation, statement or tortious act or omission (including negligence) arising under or in
    connection with this agreement.
    3.2) The Company’s liability to you – the Company shall not be liable to you for any loss or damage as a result of:
    3.2.1) the Company having acted on your instruction or following receipt of any information from you;
    3.2.2) the Company’s services being unavailable through any cause beyond our reasonable control.
    3.3) The Company will not be held responsible, other than that carried out by the Company, by any action taken by
    the Third Party against you as a result of any claim made on your behalf by the Company.
    3.4) You must disclose if you have received any settlement for any claim on the account/policy/product specified
    within the last 6 years or any part of monetary recompense or have instructed another organisation to do so on
    your behalf. Failure to disclose this information in writing will leave you liable for all reasonable costs incurred
    by the Company.
    3.5) You agree that any debt or liability incurred by you under this agreement shall be solely the responsibility of
    you, the Claimant, unless as a direct result of the actions of Bank-Smart.
    3.6) The Company reserves the right:
    3.6.1) to apply any monies recovered for you on any claim in or towards satisfaction of any monies due by
    you and payable to the Company in respect of that claim and any other claims dealt with or being dealt with for
    you by the Company.
    4. Cancellation and Termination
    4.1) You have 14 days from the date of signing the Letter of Engagement to cancel your claim(s) or 14 days from
    the date of signing the original Letter of Authority where subsequent new claims are registered to an existing
    contract. This should be by written notice to Bank-Smart, Cancellation Team, 11-15 Betterton St, Covent
    Garden, London, WC2H 9PB. Written notification must be received by us within the 14 day period and any
    cancellations of claims after this period will be subject to a cancellation fee dependent upon the tasks we have
    carried out. The fee may be anything from our basic processing costs up to our full commission and costs,
    details of which can be found by clicking the ‘cancel’ link next to your claim within the Bank-Smart client area
    of the website or within the help section of the Company website, by email or by writing to us at Bank-Smart,
    Cancellation Team, 11-15 Betterton St, Covent Garden, London, WC2H 9PB. Cancellations after the demand
    for payment has been made to your bank/financial institution are subject to our full fee as stated in condition
    2.8. Proof of sending is not proof of delivery and we recommend that cancellation letters be sent by recorded
    delivery. You may also cancel or request information on cancelling by emailing [email protected]
    co.uk. Please ensure that you keep a copy of all cancellation emails.
    4.2) If you settle your claim with the Third Party before we have calculated the value of your claim you will be
    liable to pay twenty five percent plus VAT of the amount refunded, or our basic processing costs, whichever is
    the greater. For a full list of these charges write to us at Bank-Smart, Cancellation Team, 11-15 Betterton St,
    Covent Garden, London, WC2H 9PB or email [email protected]
    4.3) This agreement shall terminate upon:
    4.3.1) settlement being obtained from the Third Party and full payment of our fees; or
    4.3.2) upon the Company giving you notice that no further action in relation to your claim will be taken by the
    Company.
    4.3.3) upon written cancellation and payment of any relevant cancellation fee.
    5. Complaints
    5.1) If you are unhappy with the Company’s service you have the right to complain. If you have a complaint please
    view our complaints procedure on our website or contact us by:
    Emailing [email protected] or by writing to us at Bank-Smart Complaints, 11-15 Betterton St,
    Covent Garden, London, WC2H 9PB and we will provide you a copy of our complaints procedure.
    6. Data Protection
    6.1) The Company will process all information in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. We use the
    personal information you provide to assess your position and carry out the services we provide. By providing
    your personal information you explicitly authorise us to process your information. If you provide information
    to us about another party you confirm they consent to us processing their personal information and that you
    collected the information on their behalf. You can request a copy of the information we hold about you at any
    time by writing to the Company’s address and enclosing a cheque for £10 made payable to Symmetric Systems
    Limited. We may disclose the information you provide to our trusted partners who may contact you about
    other relevant services. If you do not want us to do this please let us know when returning your claim pack.
    7. Force Majeure
    7.1) The Company shall have no liability to you under this agreement if it is prevented from or delayed in
    performing its obligations under this agreement or from carrying on its business by acts, events, omissions or
    accidents beyond its reasonable control, including strikes, lock-outs or other industrial disputes (whether
    involving the workforce of the Supplier or any other party), failure of a utility service or transport network, act
    of God, war, riot, civil commotion, malicious damage, compliance with any law or governmental order, rule,
    regulation or direction, accident, breakdown of plant or machinery, fire, flood, storm or default of suppliers or
    sub-contractors.
    8. Variation
    8.1) No variation of this agreement or these conditions or of any of the documents referred to in them shall be valid
    unless it is in writing and signed by or on behalf of each of the parties.
    9.
    Waiver
    9.1) A waiver of any right under this agreement is only effective if it is in writing and it applies only to the party to
    whom the waiver is addressed and the circumstances for which it is given.
    10. Severance
    10.1) If any provision of this agreement is found by any court or administrative body of competent jurisdiction to be
    invalid, unenforceable or illegal, the other provisions will remain in force.
    11. Assignment
    11.1) You shall not, without the prior written consent of the Company, assign, transfer, charge, sub-contract or deal
    in any other manner with all or any of its rights or obligations under this agreement.
    12. Rights of Third Parties
    12.1) This agreement is made for the benefit of the parties to it and (where applicable) their successors and permitted
    assigns and is not intended to benefit, or be enforceable by, anyone else.
    13. Notices
    Notices given under this agreement shall be in writing, sent to the address or email address provided by you or
    in the form of comments through your online secure Bank-Smart account. A notice is deemed to have been
    received: if delivered personally, at the time of delivery; in the case of email, at the time of transmission; in the
    case of pre-paid first class post or recorded delivery, 48 hours from the date of posting; and, if deemed receipt
    under this condition is not within business hours (meaning 9.00 am to 5.30 pm Monday to Friday on a day that
    is a business day), at 9.00 am on the first business day following delivery. To prove service, it is sufficient to
    prove that the notice was transmitted by email to the email address of the party or, in the case of post, that the
    envelope containing the notice was properly addressed and posted.
    14. Tax Claims
    14.1) Tax refund claims may be passed to a third party Company for processing and any commission due must be
    paid directly to them. Bank-Smart reserves the right to invoice you directly for the basic processing costs
    incurred plus VAT and the third party Company will reduce their invoice by the same amount should payment
    not be made within 60 days from the date of invoice. We are obliged to inform you that where we refer a claim
    to a third party Company we may receive a referral fee. We receive from £10 to 50% of the commission
    charged by the third party.
    15. Personal Injury Claims
    15.1) Personal injury claims will be passed to a third party specialist solicitor who will complete your claim for
    compensation on a no win no fee basis. We are obliged to inform you that where we refer your case to a
    solicitor we may receive a referral fee. This fee only applies on cases where the appointed solicitor is able to
    recover their fees from your opponent. The fee we receive is five hundred pounds sterling. We must stress
    that this does not affect the way your claim is handled or the amount of compensation you may receive. You
    will receive 100% of the compensation for personal injury.
    16. Unenforceable Contract Claims
    16.1) In the event that you submit an unenforceable claim against any loan, credit card or other regulated agreement
    that Bank-Smart are yet to complete the return of penalty charges to you, on completion of the unenforceable
    claim, you agree to repay the total commission and costs due to Bank-Smart for the associated Bank-Smart
    claim as stated in condition 2.8.
    16.2) You agree that on submission of any unenforceable claim the Company will not be liable for any repercussions
    as a result of your non-payment of any outstanding existing debt. Please view our website, the OFT website or
    write to us at our registered address for further information on the possible implications of submitting an
    unenforceable claim. Claims are deemed to be settled in full when either the debt is wiped our, either through
    the courts or direct with the loan/credit card provider or other financial institution or the Company is not
    provided with a copy of the agreement within the timescales required under the Consumer Credit Act.
    17. Governing Law and Jurisdiction
    17.1) This agreement and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it or its subject matter, shall be
    governed by, and construed in accordance with, the law of England and Wales.
    17.2) The parties agree that the courts of England and Wales shall have jurisdiction to settle any dispute or claim that
    arises out of or in connection with this agreement or its subject matter.


    This is the T&C they have sent me. but in the beginning they did not proivide enough information, they told me that what ever money they reclaim they will deduct their fees from there

  22. #22
    teaboy2's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    If they have not fullfilled their part of the contract, or you have not received any settlement for such accounts then you are not liable for paying them any fees. As you clearly have not received any settlement to which their fees apply too.

    I would simply write back stating that the agreement was that they would reclaim unfair charges and fees etc (or whatever they were reclaiming for you) and as they have failed to actually do so, and no settlement has been received by you, then they have failed to fufill their side of the contract and as such they are not entitled to any monies from you.

    See 2.11 which makes it clear you only have to pay per account as and when you receive a settlement on that account. And the same under 2.9 which makes it clear fees under 2.8.2 are payable upon receipt of settlement only.

    So really the question is, have you actually received any settlement directly from the banks/creditor the accounts are with or through bank smart?
    Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

    By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

    If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

    I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

    The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

  23. #23
    CleverClogs's Avatar

    CleverClogs
    Guest


    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Quote Originally Posted by Milliman View Post
    TERMS & CONDITIONS (v8.1)
    Thank you. Was that the version applicable when you signed up with that CMC?

    This is the T&C they have sent me. but in the beginning they did not proivide enough information, they told me that what ever money they reclaim they will deduct their fees from there
    When did they deign to provide that statement of their terms and conditions?

    I am sure that some parts, at least, could prove to be unenforceable.

  24. #24
    Milliman's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Well that T&C was sent to me last week when first recieved the invoices which i must state had not attachment to it just that it said i owe this amount for this unsuccessfull claims. i emailed them asking that i was not aware that i had to pay only that when i reclaimed then they sent me this T&C pdf form.

    i dont remember to be honest if this was the original only because i that time i was told it would be quick and easy.
    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    [quote=teaboy2;231678]If they have not fullfilled their part of the contract, or you have not received any settlement for such accounts then you are not liable for paying them any fees. As you clearly have not received any settlement to which their fees apply too.]

    i have not recieved a single penny from either the banks or them because these invoices are for a unsuccessful claims.
    Last edited by Milliman; 11th October 2011 at 13:42:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  25. #25
    teaboy2's Avatar

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    Default Re: bank-smart lose in court over t&c's

    Then as i said in an my earlier post, you do not have to pay them anything since you have not received any settlement and they have therefore not fulfilled their part of the contract and as such are not entilted to any monies they alleged are owned as confirmed in the terms i pointed out in my earlier post.
    Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

    By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

    If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

    I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

    The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

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