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Thread: Fixed Penalty Notice

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  1. #1
    marx21's Avatar

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    Default Fixed Penalty Notice

    My friend and I were recently issued with £40 Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) by Strathclyde Police prior to watching Glasgow Rangers at a recent football match. My friend was accused of `urinating in a public place` whist my ticket stated `urinate in full view of the public`.

    We had disappeared down an alley and behind a wall. The area appeared to be private property and we certainly weren’t doing anything in `full view of the public`. There is also a 10 minute discrepancy between our Notices.

    Since the roll out of FPNs in Scotland for such offences the cash has clearly begun to roll in and these 2 officers appeared to be very proactive in their work. Putting minor technicalities to one side, I am interested in the legal requirement to`give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence as are necessary to provide reasonable information about it`; Does the above (limited) wording on our FPNs satisfy this. What we are accused of is clear and How is implicit but there is no Where and a discrepancy over When.

    If this were my hometown, I would gamble the extra £20 plus court costs but as Glasgow is a 500 mile round trip and I am currently minded to pay up albeit reluctantly unless anyone can help.

  2. #2
    Paule's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by marx21 View Post
    We had disappeared down an alley and behind a wall.
    Personally, as this isnt a public toilet, you should get the ticket.

    It may have been desolate at the time, but on a normal day it may be used, and to have people using it as a toilet isnt nice.

    Some case I agree should be challenged, but ad you admit to the offence, why challenge it.

    The area appeared to be private property
    Which makes it even worse to the property owner

    give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence as are necessary to provide reasonable information about it`
    It stated you were urinating, you admitted you were urinating, that was the offence, what more do you feel it should say about the incident?

    these 2 officers appeared to be very proactive
    I hope they are, that's what all officers should be like.
    Also they will always be a higher police presence round a football match.

  3. #3
    jules2008's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    you could try pepipoo an online advice place for motoring offences and the like but i think that they will pretty much say the same as pkea

  4. #4
    calamity jane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    I agree with PKea.

    Being private property does not make it any less offensive. A few years ago a workman laying our neighbours new drive disappeared round the side of our bungalow. On investigation we found he was relieving himself in our garden. Not nice.


    You should pay the fine.

  5. #5
    marx21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    I was actually after legal not moral advice and I haven't admitted anything.

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    Amy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    Did they present you with these FPNs at the time?

  7. #7
    marx21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    Yes in accordance with
    Section 47 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 (c.45)

    I was told the fine would keep going up (the limit is actually £60). I was not told how I could contest it and I should have been. The Police assumed I had been urinating. My priority (having spent more than £40 on ticket & transport) was to get to the match and this was their opening statement. `We can give you a ticket and you can get off and see the match`.

  8. #8
    Amy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    Did they witness it. What I mean is, can you reasonably contest it?

  9. #9
    marx21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    They certainly didn't witness anything but claim that they did. My problem was and is explaining what we were doing. They made an assumption, everything was rushed and I got the impression that they were after handing out a certain amount of tickets. The money isn't an issue, I'm just narked that I appear to have been mugged. My only hope is whether there is a precedent for revocation where there is a dispute over the time of the alleged incident and/or no mention at all of the location.

  10. #10
    Paule's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by marx21 View Post
    I was actually after legal not moral advice and I haven't admitted anything.
    What furhter Legal answers do you require?

    Quote Originally Posted by marx21
    `give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence as are necessary to provide reasonable information about it`; Does the above (limited) wording on our FPNs satisfy this. What we are accused of is clear and How is implicit but there is no Where and a discrepancy over When.
    It stated you were urinating, that was the offence, the date & time on the ticket will relate to when\(15 mins difference wont carry any weight), was there no location stated on the ticket?

    Can you scan and post up the ticket?

  11. #11
    Paule's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    What were you actually doing then?

  12. #12
    marx21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    [IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/User/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/FPN.jpg[/IMG]Sorry I was just looking at the offence particulars. The location was stated further up. I have scanned the ticket into My Pictures but not sure how to post it. It all does seem in order though. Thanks for your time.:santa_smiley:

  13. #13
    Amy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixed Penalty Notice

    You'll have to upload it using the paperclip in the icons above where you post.

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