Crack House Closure

[cinders]

Sally,

I have never really spoken with you all that much but reading this story has touched me....

I am sorry about your daughters situation, its a truly terrible thing for her to go through and it does sound to me like people were singling her out. People see others who appear weak and get off on making them miserable. We went through it when I was little, our neighbour locked me in a rabbit huch (funny now but notwhen my dad thought I had been abducted) The lads in the house used to spit on my mum and stuff, luckily we had a break and managed to get away from them, now we laugh when we see them all in town looking rough and battered.....

Your daughter will get through this, she has a supportive mum and seems to have her head screwed on well, although she has dropped clangers in the past she seems to have sorted herself out now, and anyway, she is only 20, still a baby herself really and I am sure you still think of her that way.

I hope she gets somewhere sorted and pretty quickly.

Love to you and your daughter....


Loulou

xxx

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

My daughter has decided to appeal the decision.
This is because she really feels that she did not deserve the outcome and magistrates are heavily influenced by the police.
The appeal will go to crown court.
She does not want to live there again, but needs to clear her name!

In black below is what I have found about evidence of a "crackhouse"

It is the role of the Social Landlord to work with Police to help provide the evidence that gives rise to "reasonable suspicion". This might be evidence based around:

1.Large numbers of comings and goings from the premises.
Her partner died so of course there were. The only other complaint in over 12 months was about her birthday party.
2.The presence of drugs paraphernalia in the locality.
The only thing that has been found is one needle (and no-one apart from the complainent has seen it. Frankly I doubt it's existance)
3.Reports of increased incidents of robbery and burglary in the vicinity.
As far as I am aware there isn't. When the community cop was asked he mumbled he didn't know.
4.Serious disorder in the local area.
As the police have been called at least three times - one of them armed response - for noise, underage drinking, loud music, intimidating and hitting foriegn students, since she has left then I would say there is serious disorder anyway!
The premises cannot be closed simply because of drug production, supply or use. There must also be evidence of disorder or serious nuisance.
1.Intimidating and threatening behaviour towards residents.
My daughter had a big argument with the woman downstairs about my grand daughter using the communal garden when they first moved in. She never played there since. From then on they barely spoke. There was no threats, never has been. A lot of bad feeling on both parts.
2.A significant increase in reports of crime in the immediate area surrounding the accommodation.
As before, not as known even by the police.
3.Significant problems with prostitution
No, although there is a discreet brothel about four streets away. None of the girls or clients come to my daughters.
4.Sexual acts being committed in public.
No. A group of naked drunk men appeared in the close having climbed the adjoining wall from the pub! Nothing to do with my daughter.
5.Consistent need to collect or dispose of drugs paraphernalia and other dangerous items.
As above - the supposed needle.
6.Violent offences and crime being committed on or in the vicinity of the premises.
The police were called for domestic violence between my daughter and her boyfriend a few times. And she dragged the abusive, drunk 18 year old away from her flat. Also listed on the police call out for her address was another resident and his friend having a fight - presumably because they have both visited her's, although they weren't at her's that day.
7.Criminal damage i.e. damage to entry phones systems and communal doors.
No. The adjoining fence does frequently get broken by the local children kicking a ball against it.
8.Number counts of volume of people entering and leaving the premises over a 24-hour period and the resultant disruption they cause to residents.
Since her boyfriend died there have been quite a few people there, although no-one came after 11pm or before 10am. There was a complaint about someone sounding their car horn outside the flats at 6am, but my daughter knows nothing about it. None of her friends would be out of bed at that time!
9.Noise (i.e. constant/intrusive noise or excessive noise at all hours associated with visitors to the property
Yes, but as above not "at all hours".

Professional witnesses (Police and Housing Officers) can be presented to the court as a means of witness protection where there is a fear of recrimination.
Well two of them weren't too scared to admit to me they had made complaints. Nor too scared to come out to the police when they were called making it obvious who called them. Another descibed herself as living in a house opposite - due to the strange shape of the close there are only two opposite and one of them she is friends with.
Social landlords and the local authority will be asked to provide whatever relevant information they can in relation to the property and its occupants.
The woman from the HA said there had been one complaint in over a year. And that was about the amount of visitor's NOT noise. It was within a week of Will's death!


As I said she is not an angel, she smokes weed, does a bit of cocaine (not since all this) has music loud occasionally (never too long as the woman phones the police within 10 minutes). She can be loud when drunk and swears.
I can't see how that makes it a "crackhouse"

Sally x

[biscuits]

Re: Crack House Closure

Sal. ditto what loulou said couldn't have put it better myself!
Keep us up to speed on this ol?

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

Will do, but knowing the courts it will be a couple of years!!!

Sally xxx

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

It gets worse!!
The council have told my daughter that they are having an investigation in to her circumstances and if they find that she has "intentionally made herself homeless" then they will give her 28 days in this hostel then they have fulfilled their obligation to her.
After that she has to move out.

The prosecution used the fact that the council would put her in tempory accommodation to push for closure rather than restrictions. The magistrate used this fact in the summing up.

Is this right?
There is no way we can raise the £1300 minimum needed for private.

Anyone know what she can do?

Sally x

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

A bit of good news.
My daughter went to answer bail about the heroin and was told that it was in fact MDMA - powdered ecstasy. Don't understand how the so called "field test" they did said it was heroin!!??
Anyway, she is not being charged with it. Not even for "allowing the premises" which sounds like the police believe her. Surely if they thought all the stuff in the closure was true they would have charged her.
This will look good for the appeal.
Have made an official complaint about the community cop to the Independant Police Complaints Commission

Sally x

[Amethyst]

Re: Crack House Closure

Thats good news Sal.

Keep at 'em

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

Had a letter back from the police complaints (IPCC) to say what they do is pass it to the relevant police force and they deal with it. Then if I am unhappy with their outcome I need to appeal to the IPCC.
Interestingly on their letter to me it said "......... PC **** was tasked to mediate between the complainant and her neighbours following several complaints. Complaint relates to the way that PC **** carried out his duties with reference to this matter"

The dictionary explanation of mediation is - to be an intermediary between persons or sides; to settle through efforts as an intermediary.
And intermediary - a go-between.

So as PC **** never once ever went to see her how did he carry out his "task"?
Surely this shows he did not do his job? We never knew he was meant to be mediating.

Sally x

[biscuits]

Re: Crack House Closure

He certainly wasnt doing his job sal, if he didnt meet with both sides!
That is as you say what a mediator is supposed to do, will do the case good though
di xx

[grimbell]

Re: Crack House Closure

Hi

I have just read the whole thread through and am very sorry to hear your tale. I have a 22yr old daughter who as a single mum was housed on a terrible estate 7 miles from us. She suffered all sorts of intimidation etc from neighbours and in the end because she couldn't cope took to drinking too much. Anyway to cut long story short I went to one of my local councillors and he was fantastic and tried every thing poss untill he eventually got a local housing association to accept her. We also had excellent support from social services and GP.

Perhaps trying your councillor might help too especially with all the evidence you have to show how badly treated she was by the police and court system.

As a mum I can totally sympathise and understand just how stressfull this whole episode is for you.

My daughter got moved a year ago and since then she has stopped drinking got a lovely boyfriend who is moving in soon and is at college doing a social science access course. So it just shows how being in a good enviroment can make such a difference.

Wishing you all the best.

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

Thank you Grimbell,
We will try contacting the councillor.
Her social worker is going round there tomorrow.
I don't understand why social services have not been in touch before, the police are meant to contact them in these circumstaces. It was my daughter who went to them to see if they could help and it's taken them over two weeks to come, so they obviously don't feel there's any risk!!

Sally x

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

My lovely, wonderful mum has given my daughter £1000 towards the deposit/advance rent!!!!
She can raise the rest herself from the DSS.

It is such a relief.
She is so happy!

One little problem, most landlords want a reference from previous landlords. As she lived in the last place for 3+ years it is difficult to omit it.
Any idea's?

Sally x

[Paradox]

Re: Crack House Closure

My lovely, wonderful mum has given my daughter £1000 towards the deposit/advance rent!!!!
She can raise the rest herself from the DSS.

It is such a relief.
She is so happy!

One little problem, most landlords want a reference from previous landlords. As she lived in the last place for 3+ years it is difficult to omit it.
Any idea's?

Sally x

If it was me, with all the problems she's had, I'd "bend the truth" a bit. Say she lived with you and miss the last place off entirely. I'm not suggesting you lie, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[littlesally]

Re: Crack House Closure

Have thought of that but landlords ask for "holding deposit" while they check out the guarantor.
If they check out where she lived she would lose the holding money.
Not sure if they can check, but with the internet so widely used I imagine there would be some way.

Sally x

[Paradox]

Re: Crack House Closure

Have thought of that but landlords ask for "holding deposit" while they check out the guarantor.
If they check out where she lived she would lose the holding money.
Not sure if they can check, but with the internet so widely used I imagine there would be some way.

Sally x

It depends really. Was she ever on the electoral roll? Who is doing the referencing for your daughter? (landlord or Letting agent)