Bailiffs and parking fines

[ginfizz]

hi, does anyone know what documents a bailiff has to produce when collecting a fine? my husband just paid them £712 for supposedly 2 parking fines he knew nothing about. he paid them because they clamped his taxi( he's a licensed black cab driver), refusing to release it unless he paid. hey said his vehicle was now the property of the court and that if he removed it, his vehicle would be reported to the police and public carriage office as stolen. the bailiff didnt show us the warrant of execution or his own certificate. do you think we have grounds to get this money back from the bailiffs

[Amy]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

So he's had absolutely no paperwork and no warning of this at all and a clamped vehicle was the first he knew about it?

Where was it when it was clamped?

Sounds to me as if you have very definite grounds for getting your money back, but some more details would be useful.

[ginfizz]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

He was clamped on a local street - apparantly they found the vehicle with APNR technology. At the time of the clamp he'd had no paperwork, but the next day a letter came from the bailiffs dated the day before they clamped him. I have drafted a letter to send the bailiffs - can I copy and paste it in for you to see?

[Amy]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

Yes, of course you can.

[ginfizz]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

thanks - this is what i have drafted to send the bailiffs company (name of bailiffs company):

Dear Sirs

Your Ref: 1246036 & 1105620




I was visited by (Bailiffs name),a bailiff acting for your company on 17/11/2008 and was pressured into paying the sum of £712.02 for 2 alleged parking infringements on dates unknown to me, as per the attached documents:

• Copy of letter from yourselves dated 13/11/08
• Copy of notice left on my clamped vehicle on 14/11/08
• Copy of Notice of distress given to me by (bailiffs name) on 17/11/08 although I later realised he dated it 14/11/08
• Undated copy of receipt for payment (although it is numbered)

I believe this money was extracted from me illegally for the following reasons:

• I had never received any correspondence previous to your letter of 13/11/08
• Your letter does not show any information as to what this relates to. The bailiff advised me it related to 2 parking tickets in LB Camden, but without the PCN no’s I have no way of redressing the matter back to Camden Council via the Traffic Enforcement Centre.
• The bailiffs did not provide any written authorisation that they were acting on behalf of the council/authority.
• The bailiff did not show me any proof that he is a certified bailiff.
• The bailiff did not show me a warrant of execution (form PE9).
• The Notice of Distress has been incorrectly dated
• The receipt for payment is undated.

His approach was to bully me into paying. I mentioned that by paying the bill, I would be left without any money and his response was that my vehicle (a licensed black taxi) was now considered the property of the court and that he, (the bailiff's name) could report this to the DVLA and public carriage office thus preventing me from working. At this point, not knowing the procedure and my rights, I paid; although I was not shown a warrant and have no information at all, save for a receipt for the sum of £712.02.

I believe that your bailiff acted against the Code of Practice from the Traffic Enforcement Centre which states the following:

“The warrant must be enforced as a county court warrant. The certificated bailiff must have the warrant in his personal possession when he visits a person or premises with a view to enforcing it and he must produce it on demand to anyone who has reasonable grounds to see it.”

Had your bailiff and your company followed the correct procedure I would have had the opportunity to request an Out of Time Declaration from TEC and investigate what these parking fines relate to and contest them if necessary, as you have not provided me with any information that I can take to the TEC I had no option than to pay the bailiff under threat of my livelihood as a licensed taxi driver being jeopardized.

For these reasonsI would request that you comply with the Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request, and provide me with the 2 PCN no’s of these alleged offences.

I would further request that you refund me in total the amount paid to you under duress of £712.02.

Your most urgent response is awaited.

Yours faithfully

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

Hello ginfizz

You appear to have a good idea of what to do and I would suggest that you also take a look at these two threads Trying it on or for real - Legal Beagles & Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit - Legal Beagles - also, bailiffs are "certificated" not "certified" - a small point, but worth mentioning, since you are writing to them.

I would send a more formal SAR, as in post #5 of this thread Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit - Legal Beagles above and remember, you must also enclose a payment of £10 for the SAR. They may not require it, but if they do, the 40 days they have to comply does not begin until they have that payment.

I would also send a copies of any correspondence to the local authority on whose behalf the bailiffs were operating - few people are aware of this, in particular in local authorities, but whether they like it or not, the authority is responsible for the actions of the bailiffs. If the bailiffs break the law, the local authority are equally culpable and liable for any consequences as the bailiffs are acting directly as agents of the authority.

[ginfizz]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

thankyou very much - i will amend the letter and put it back on for your comments if thats ok
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Hi Cet, I have tried to incorporate the SAR into the original letter - do you think its ok. I will write to Camden Council separately and enclose a copy with this letter.

Dear Sirs

Your Ref: 1246036 & 1105620


I was visited by (Bailiffs name),a bailiff acting for your company on 17/11/2008 and was pressured into paying the sum of £712.02 for 2 alleged parking infringements on dates unknown to me, as per the attached documents:

• Copy of letter from yourselves dated 13/11/08
• Copy of notice left on my clamped vehicle on 14/11/08
• Copy of Notice of distress given to me by (bailiffs name) on 17/11/08 although I later realised he dated it 14/11/08
• Undated copy of receipt for payment (although it is numbered)

I believe this money was extracted from me illegally for the following reasons:

• I had never received any correspondence previous to your letter of 13/11/08
• Your letter does not show any information as to what this relates to. The bailiff advised me it related to 2 parking tickets in LB Camden, but without the PCN no’s I have no way of redressing the matter back to Camden Council via the Traffic Enforcement Centre.
• The bailiffs did not provide any written authorisation that they were acting on behalf of the council/authority.
• The bailiff did not show me any proof that he is a certified bailiff.
• The bailiff did not show me a warrant of execution (form PE9).
• The Notice of Distress has been incorrectly dated
• The receipt for payment is undated.

His approach was to bully me into paying. I mentioned that by paying the bill, I would be left without any money and his response was that my vehicle (a licensed black taxi) was now considered the property of the court and that he, (the bailiff's name) could report this to the DVLA and public carriage office thus preventing me from working. At this point, not knowing the procedure and my rights, I paid; although I was not shown a warrant and have no information at all, save for a receipt for the sum of £712.02.


I believe that your bailiff acted against the Code of Practice from the Traffic Enforcement Centre which states the following:

“The warrant must be enforced as a county court warrant. The certificated bailiff must have the warrant in his personal possession when he visits a person or premises with a view to enforcing it and he must produce it on demand to anyone who has reasonable grounds to see it.”

Had your bailiff and your company followed the correct procedure I would have had the opportunity to request an Out of Time Declaration from TEC and investigate what these parking fines relate to and contest them if necessary, as you have not provided me with any information that I can take to the TEC I had no option than to pay the bailiff under threat of my livelihood as a licensed taxi driver being jeopardized.

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Accordingly, kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque.

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return.

I would at this stage also inform you that I reserve the right to instruct my solicitors to issue proceedings in the County Court, against the London Borough of Camden and (name of bailiffs witheld)as second defendants, within which proceedings I will, inter alia, seek substantial damages together with costs should any further action be taken.

I would further request that you refund me in total the amount paid to you under duress of £712.02.


Your most urgent response is awaited.

Yours faithfully

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

OK, looks fine but for your penultimate paragraph because I am not sure why it is there. If the sums demanded have been paid in full, there is no further action for them to take.

That line belongs in the letter to the London Borough of Camden, not the bailiffs.

Aside from that, print it, enclose the £10 and send it.

[ginfizz]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

yes i see what you mean - i got a bit carried away i think!!

thanks again so much, i will let you know the outcome

[Camdengirl]

Re: Bailiffs and parking fines

ginfizz - I'm doing a work placement this week at a local newspaper covering Camden.

We've run stories before about clampers. Would you be prepared to chat to me about your experience?

If so, can you PM me and I'll send you some contact details? Or we can exchange PMs.