Business rates demand notice - court

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

ploddertom - thank you so much for help and information.

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

You are more than welcome as that is what we are here for. A lot of us have learned from our own misfortunes & like to help others who are just starting out.

[Amethyst]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

I just have a concern over this part of the Companies Act re Voluntary Strike Off

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...6/section/1003

(6)However—

(a)the liability (if any) of every director, managing officer and member of the company continues and may be enforced as if the company had not been dissolved, and

(b)nothing in this section affects the power of the court to wind up a company the name of which has been struck off the register.

which I think means

In order to apply for voluntary striking off the company must be solvent: the directors can be held to be personally accountable if the company is struck off without settling all its debts.

But of course that depends where the business rate debt has risen up from and whether I've understood the rules correctly - it's not my area so I could be reading too much into it / looking for pitfalls that don't exist - If you can get some formal legal advice from someone who deals with company dissolutions and understands the business rates rules, before this gets to court I would.

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Amethyst - thank you for additional and helpful information. Unfortunately i am keeping my hard earned cash ready in case if i have to pay this council and dont have any spare to pay any lawyers for their help. Can only go there and hope for the best. And cross fingers.

[Amethyst]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Could be worth seeking some knowledgable peoples thoughts over on the UK Business Forums - there's a few threads over there about business rates on dissolved companies I've found - seems to rely on when you stopped using the business premises ...

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/th...rector.368767/
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/th...demand.368579/
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/th...s-bill.358996/
etc.

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Company was sold to other director who operated from the same premises for another couple of months before moving away. Only issue i see is that few of the Rental agreements were in my and ex-business partners names (for landlords security purposes) even do we traded as a company from the same premises.

[Amethyst]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

So was the company sold or dissolved ? If sold the liability for the business rates would presumably have transferred to the new owner.

What does it say on companies house ? If you look at the Filing History page on your company entry on https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/ it should say something like "Final Gazette dissolved via voluntary strike-off " - you'll want those documents for court anyway to evidence the business was dissolved and when.

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Company was sold to new owner for £1,- in November 2012 and new owner dissolved it 6 months after as he could not get contracts with companies extended.

Companies house - Jul 2013 Final Gazette dissolved via voluntary strike-off

[Amethyst]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Is the business rate debt for that Nov '12 to Jul '13 period ?

Did you resign as directors when you sold it ?

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

No, the alleged debt is for 2012 Jan-March, at the time i was one of the directors of the company. And after selling company in November i did resign with immediate effect (Companies house shows this on records).

[Amethyst]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

You are likely to be fine, so I hope you don't mind me being a bit doomy gloomy - I didn't want to read and run even though it's not hugely my area. When you sold the company was it with liabilities etc ? In case the court believes you are liable because it was voluntarily struck off - then you might be able to show the debt liability was bought by the new owner when you sold and resigned as director - May be worth taking the sale agreement with you just in case to give you a back up line of defence.

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Thank you Amethyst for help and comments. Really appreciate when other people are trying to help. Will try and search for that sales contract but dont remember there any clause of any debt liabilities. I remeber there being a clause which stated something: The Seller warrants that business shave witheld all amounts required and has paid all amounts owing to the proper authorities.

What we sold was a company at its current state with a few contracts, all assets within garage (tools, mechanics, etc) and rental contract.

[peter.k]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Hi all. just wanted to see what paperwork i need with me when attending court on Thursday? Getting a bit nervous as i have not been to any courts before..

[Minoro]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Hi all. just wanted to see what paperwork i need with me when attending court on Thursday? Getting a bit nervous as i have not been to any courts before..

As has been mentioned before, when you go to "Court" it is really just room in the building that the Council have rented. There will be several desks in the same room, each with a Council employee behind them to process everyone there. They will nod attentively, take notes, and then get a Magistrate to sign off the Liability Order long after you have left.

Therefore as advised you should ask that the matter go in front of the Magistrate. One of two things will then happen - you either will be informed that the matter has been adjourned and you wait several weeks for a new date, or you will go onto the end of the List to go into the Court. In the latter case, you should ask for an adjournement to seek legal advice (no solicitor was available to assist you on that day), which will almnost certainly be agreed.

As a Rating Agent I have attended many of these Hearings to support clients. You will probably find that once you have requested the matter go before the Magistrate, the Council representative will be a lot more helpful and ameniable than anyone on the phone was. They may well pre-agree the adjournment, or at least tell you before you go in front of the Magistrate that they will not oppose such a request.

There is nothing to worry about - you will probably discover that when not hiding behind a phone or letters everyone involved is just human, and will assist you as someone not used to the Court system.

Skimming throrugh previous posts, however, there are a couple of potential issues (I may have not read enough). Firstly, you granted a lease to somone for the buliding. Does that mean you and your partner own the building personally or through another entity (Ie. Pension, other Partnership/Ltd Company?). If so, then you should know that the Landlord can be held responsible for rates on their building if the occupier does not pay (although you it was legally a separate entity). This can get messy.

You mentioned the Rates Demand and Summons are in your name. Was the original bill back at the time in your name or the (now defunct) company? It may be too late for you to check your records or get copies from the LA- but there would be nothing wrong with the owner being billed rather than the occupioer in which case (if the owner was you) then you would probably be liable. It is a bit of a minefield under these circumstances ( I have seen many cases where the owner did not ensure that the occupier was being correctly billed - creating all sorts of problems down the line) - hence the adjournemnt request is required to take advice.

Anyhow, not withstanding the owner/occupier issues if there are any, follow the advice hbre and from others when you are at Court and you will have time to sort it out one way or the other.

[Minoro]

Re: Business rates demand notice - court

Just to clarify my post - I think the matter of who owned the Company in occupation and if the previous owner warrantied the new owner on undisclosed debts is a bit of a red herring here - it is who was being billed at the time, and if you owned the property or not outside of the occupying Ltd Company. If you did not own the property and your only connection was as a Director of the occupying entity at the time of the alledged debt, then you just need to seek redress so that the proper occupying entity is billed for the period on question, which will remove oyu form liability -ie. correct a Council billing mistake!