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  1. #1
    Kaypegasus1's Avatar

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    Angry Non paid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Hi,


    I applied for a job in a cafe, and subsequently got the position. I worked for my boss for 5 months. Turns out he was terrible at paying wages, and just not a nice person at all. So I left soon after pay day on the fifth month, but had accrued holiday and wages before the pay cut off period. He had also been paying me 33p per hour less than he should hdave which he agreed in an email which I have saved.

    I did not receive my last pay packet and was ready to write it off (as it had been a couple of months) when he contacted me and asked me to return the keys to his cafe and he would pay what he owed. I’d forgotten about the keys I had and dutifully returned them and informed him. He still did not pay.

    I started a MCOL procedure against him. I issued it to him (his name) and added the name and address of the premises that I worked in- (XYZ...LTD)
    He failed to respond to the court papers. I got a judgement by default, and he was sent a letter to the premises if Work orderingbhim to pay me.

    He then contacted me by email and said that I was not employed by him, but by a LTD company and he demanded that his name was removed form the forms. Just clairification, he was in charge of everything including wages, Rotas, ordering food, employing, dismissing etc. I never met anyone in any kind of elevated position. There’re is no HR department or anything like that. There was only him, which is why I put his name down (naively)

    He said once his name was off the claim he would pay up. I of course don’t trust him an inch, and would have had to pay £255 to get it set aside to make those kind of changes, and so said no. I just don’t have that kind of money.

    He emailed a second time (05/10/17) and said that he had taken advice from the ‘registry office’ (I’m not sure what that is) and that the claim would not be registered because it was not a legal claim because his personal name was on the particulars. Is this right?

    I did some research and found that you can indeed ‘sue’ and MD of a LTD company if he has acted illegally with regards to finances? Is withholding pay and holiday pay a contender for this clause?

    Nothing on the MCOL has changed, it still says that “judgement was issued on 29/09/17"
    He has emailed today (10/10/2017) and said I have been contacted by the ‘registry office’ about this by now,and once his name is taken off the claim he will pay. I’ve heard nothing.

    The next part of the process is to issue a warrant, which I have today tried to do. It says when I press the link that "insufficient time has passed to action that" it’s been 12 days. I cannot find anywhere on there how long I have to wait.

    Please can I get some advice, I’m young, broke and have gotten into debt due to the last wages not being paid. This is really beginning to get me down.

    The total amount outstanding is £535 including the MCOL fee of £35.

    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Non paid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    I'd go back to him and tell him that Judgment registrations are removed from the register if they are paid within one calendar month from the date of judgment. If he pays you before the 27th October you can inform the court of the payment and the judgment will be removed from the register, thereby not affecting either him personally or his company. Alternatively he can apply to the court to have the judgment set aside, you will consent to the set aside, however it will cost him the application fee of £100. This is because he could have acknowledged and defended the original case and chose not to. If the setaside if successful you can then amend the claim to his company name ( cost £100 ) he will have opportunity to defend or the judgment will be re-entered against his company however further costs will be added to the judgment amount. If the setaside is not successful the judgment would be registered and as it would be after the calendar month would remain on his file for 6 years.

    It just makes sense for him just to pay you your wages now so you can tell the court it's been paid and it's removed from the register.

    Have you checked the company details on companies house btw? Is he a Ltd company or sole trader ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  3. #3
    Kaypegasus1's Avatar

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    Post unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Hi,
    I’ve accidently posted this in the welcome area. Not sure how to delete it from there! Sorry!



    I applied for a job in a cafe, and subsequently got the position. I worked for my boss for 5 months. Turns out he was terrible at paying wages, and just not a nice person at all. So I left soon after pay day on the fifth month, but had accrued holiday and wages before the pay cut off period. He had also been paying me 33p per hour less than he should hdave which he agreed in an email which I have saved.
    I did not receive my last pay packet and was ready to write it off (as it had been a couple of months) when he contacted me and asked me to return the keys to his cafe and he would pay what he owed. I’d forgotten about the keys I had and dutifully returned them and informed him. He still did not pay.
    I started a MCOL procedure against him. I issued it to him (his name) and added the name and address of the premises that I worked in- (XYZ...LTD)
    He failed to respond to the court papers. I got a judgement by default, and he was sent a letter to the premises if Work orderingbhim to pay me.
    He then contacted me by email and said that I was not employed by him, but by a LTD company and he demanded that his name was removed form the forms. Just clairification, he was in charge of everything including wages, Rotas, ordering food, employing, dismissing etc. I never met anyone in any kind of elevated position. There’re is no HR department or anything like that. There was only him, which is why I put his name down (naively)
    He said once his name was off the claim he would pay up. I of course don’t trust him an inch, and would have had to pay £255 to get it set aside to make those kind of changes, and so said no. I just don’t have that kind of money.
    He emailed a second time (05/10/17) and said that he had taken advice from the ‘registry office’ (I’m not sure what that is) and that the claim would not be registered because it was not a legal claim because his personal name was on the particulars. Is this right?
    I did some research and found that you can indeed ‘sue’ and MD of a LTD company if he has acted illegally with regards to finances? Is withholding pay and holiday pay a contender for this clause?
    Nothing on the MCOL has changed, it still says that “judgement was issued on 29/09/17"
    He has emailed today (10/10/2017) and said I have been contacted by the ‘registry office’ about this by now,and once his name is taken off the claim he will pay. I’ve heard nothing.
    The next part of the process is to issue a warrant, which I have today tried to do. It says when I press the link that "insufficient time has passed to action that" it’s been 12 days. I cannot find anywhere on there how long I have to wait.
    Please can I get some advice, I’m young, broke and have gotten into debt due to the last wages not being paid. This is really beginning to get me down.
    The total amount outstanding is £535 including the MCOL fee of £35.
    Thank you in advance.

  4. #4
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    I've replied on your other post xxx I'll merge together for you

    Done - reply is http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...l=1#post756470
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  5. #5
    Kaypegasus1's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Hello Amethyst, thank you for your super speedy response.

    i have informed him of this, and his response what that he could not legally pay the claim as he didn’t employ me personally, the company did.

    I have just looked at companies house, and he applied for a change of registered address in August. It also says company status: Liquidation.
    and that there were 3 ‘officers’ but two have resigned.

  6. #6
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    On this bit
    The next part of the process is to issue a warrant, which I have today tried to do. It says when I press the link that "insufficient time has passed to action that" it’s been 12 days. I cannot find anywhere on there how long I have to wait.
    As you know the judgment is against him as an individual rather than the LTD company it should be against requesting a warrant would just be a waste of money tbh, so need to get that bit sorted out first. Think it's normally 14 days before you can apply for a warrant.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  7. #7
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaypegasus1 View Post
    Hello Amethyst, thank you for your super speedy response.

    i have informed him of this, and his response what that he could not legally pay the claim as he didn’t employ me personally, the company did.

    I have just looked at companies house, and he applied for a change of registered address in August. It also says company status: Liquidation.
    and that there were 3 ‘officers’ but two have resigned.
    Okay he's just being a dick - up to him where he puts it in the accounts. If he's in liquidation then that's why he wants it going to the company name.

    Is the cafe still operating ?

    Oh and when did he put it into liquidation vs when you were employed ....

    Liquidation in August ( and the change of address to the accountants/liquidators?) so after you ended your employment with him?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  8. #8
    Kaypegasus1's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    He has 2 insolvency cases against him.
    case one- CVA date completed 10th August.
    Date of meeting to approve CVA 30 June

    case 2- creditors voluntary liquidation
    "commencement of winding up"-10th August
    appointed on 10th August

    i worked for him from from January to may

    im not sure if it’s still operating. Update, I’ve just called the registered number for the cafe, and it answered. So yes I think he is still operating.
    Last edited by Kaypegasus1; 10th October 2017 at 11:54:AM. Reason: missed information

  9. #9
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Well that'll be why you haven't been paid, and it's very unlikely you will be, and explains why he's being a dick.

    Unfortunately as your judgment is in his name and not the companies name you can't get it on the list of priority creditors until you got it amended to the right name. The Judgment should be against the company as that's who you were employed by. The company is in liquidation and you're a bit stuck trying to circumvent that now as he doesn't care if there is a CCJ against the company, as it will no longer exist shortly. He only cares that there is no judgment against him personally, and although he could get rid of it by paying you what he owes you, he likely doesn't have the money, and can see that he can get rid of the judgment over to the company which will then vanish in the pit of liquidation and you still get nothing.

    Can you see who the liquidators are and any of their reports ? As it is an outstanding debt ( ignoring the judgment for the moment ) you could try and get it on there, but you will likely come quite low on the list and its likely to be months before anyone gets paid, if there is anything left.

    The warrant would be a waste of money as any goods belong to the company and thus now to the liquidators so it couldn't be enforced against anything.

    He can apply to have the judgment set aside as it is against the wrong party and I suspect if you refuse to have it set aside he'll apply himself. It risks you being ordered to pay the costs of that set aside, and the only outcome of getting a new judgment against the correct party is that it gets put on the register against a liquidated company and unlikely to result in payment.

    Maybe see if you can get him to settle on half to save having to go through set aside, amendment and judgment against the company but I wouldn't be holding your breath tbh. Sorry.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  10. #10
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Okay... so we've got two bits to figure out ...

    1) company in liquidation leaving unpaid wages - what usually happens ?
    2) judgment obtained in individuals name instead of company name - how to rectify ( bearing in mind point 1 )

    @Ula ?? @R0b ???
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    If memory serves me right, employees are in the top tier when it comes to getting paid if a company becomes insolvent, assuming that there is money available. I can't remember if that extends to ex-employees, maybe Ula can answer that one.

    The government also has a compensation scheme for unpaid wages where companies are insolvent, that could be an alternative option, assuming she qualifies.

    As for the CCJ for the individual, well its up to that person to get it set aside on the basis of the claim being issued against the wrong person. Though if the individual does indeed make contact to set aside the CCJ and requests that the costs of the application is borne by the OP, I can't see that being unreasonable because there should have been due diligence in knowing who the correct party to a claim was.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Thank you rob and amethyst
    Oh crumbs! This is bad.

    couple of things.
    Can I sue him personally as he personally (as the director) guaranteed I would be paid once keys were returned. I have proof of his email to me saying he would pay once keys were returned, and my response back to him threatening legal action , a week later?

    also, he knew his business was failing and continued/ continues to trade, as a director is that allowed?

    thank you so much for your help. I have scraped and borrowed together the money for the warrant, but am so pleased I couldn’t do it this morning.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    You've already sued him personally. If the CCJ has been registered against him, which what he seems to be complaining about, then you could offer that you will agree to an uncontested set aside if he pays the money that is owed and the £100 uncontested set aside fee. He gets rid of the CCJ recorded against him personally and you get the money you are due.

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Can I sue him personally as he personally (as the director) guaranteed I would be paid once keys were returned. I have proof of his email to me saying he would pay once keys were returned, and my response back to him threatening legal action , a week later?
    If he said this in his capacity as a director on behalf of the company then the answer is no. If you are saying the contents of the email suggested that he would personally guarantee your wages out of his own pocket then perhaps there may be an argument to claim directly against him though not necessarily guaranteed.

    also, he knew his business was failing and continued/ continues to trade, as a director is that allowed?
    One for the liquidator, though no harm in you mentioning it to them. Trading whilst insolvent is a breach of the Insolvency Act and the liquidator could sue the director personally on behalf of the company to hold him personally liable for those debts that have worsened the position of the company. The director may also be liable for disqualification for a period of time.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Thank you ostell,

    The CCJ I don’t think will be recorded against him til 28/10/17. I have told him that if he pays up before then it won’t sit in his record. He is still refusing to pay until his name is removed. He want s it in the business name , so it gets lost in the insolvency thing I suppose. He doesn’t know I have looked that up against him.

  16. #16
    Kaypegasus1's Avatar

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Thank you rob for the clarification.

    He wins again!

    so what is my best option to halt all of this without being more out of pocket?

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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    So he may be more amenable to coming to some agreement with you as it gets closer to 28/10. Point out the fact that the CCJ will be recorded against him very soon. Little bit of pressure on him. He is probably hoping to set up in business again and a CCJ will be a big millstone.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: unpaid wages/holiday pay MCOL

    Difficult position I'm afraid. You could suggest as Ostell has suggested, you would be willing to agree an application to set aside the CCJ in his name on the condition that he pays for the application at £100. You could also make it conditional upon him paying you the sums owed, or alternatively you might want to consider seeking half of the money owed (at least you get something) to make it all go away now. It will be a case of negotiating but if he catches wind that he is entitled to set it aside as he doesn't personally owe the money then he may bypass you and set it aside himself.

    Also take a look at this link: https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-if-yo...ey-owed-to-you
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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