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  1. #1
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi All,


    I've received a claims form from County Court Business Centre for breaching terms of parking for the land of Gallions Reach. This apparently occurred in August 2014. Since then I have lived out of the UK for more than a year and sold the car a few months after this supposedly happened. I didn't receive any letters either as I was not living at the address they probably sent them to. I've recently received a 'letter before claim' from gladstones which I ignored.


    I've asked a friend of my bf's to send a picture of the parking notices in that area and will upload a picture. It's is not a paid parking area it's a private residential with new build apartments.


    I would really appreciate some guidance on how to fight this. I will be acknowledging receipt of this letter today and need to prepare a defence.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

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  3. #3
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi & welcome to LB

    Were you a resident of the property, or was the driver visiting a resident at the time?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  4. #4
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    No I'm not a resident the driver was visiting a resident.

  5. #5
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi Anneam12.

    Ok, so far, so good.

    Would there be any chance of a look at the resident's lease/tenancy agreement?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  6. #6
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi Charitynjw,

    i havent been able to get to get hold of the tenancy. Do you have any recommendations for my defence?

    Thanks

  7. #7
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi

    Keep trying.....it is probably the best line of defence.

    The pic of site signage......is that recently taken?
    If so, I wonder what the 2014 sign said?

    Was there a windscreen PCN, or was it via ANPR (or similar)?

    Very importantly, have you in any way ID'd whoever was driving at the time of the alleged parking contravention?
    If not.......don't!
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  8. #8
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi charitynjw,

    I'm still trying to get the lease and an old picture of the signage as what I have was recently taken.

    There was a PCN on the windscreen which I don't have and I haven't identified the driver.

  9. #9
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Ok

    I note that there is no mention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) either in the Letter before Claim or in the court claim Particulars.
    It is via Sch 4 PoFA that liability is transferred to the registered keeper.
    Failing that, they need to ID the driver.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  10. #10
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Ok

    I note that there is no mention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) either in the Letter before Claim or in the court claim Particulars.
    It is via Sch 4 PoFA that liability is transferred to the registered keeper.
    Failing that, they need to ID the driver.

    Hi Charitynjw,

    Can you please clarify how I can use this in my defence? I've tried to get hold of a friends tenancy agreement but with no luck so I will be submitting my defence tonight.

    I'll be using the following points to defend my case. Can you suggest anything else based on the information I've provided.

    - unclear signage
    - unfair fees due to the fact the alleged contravention was in 2014.
    - Claimant has no legal right to enforce the ticket without a contract with the landowner.
    - Lack of communication due to the fact I was living abroad for more than a year.
    - Location of the vehicle unclear - the letters state Gallions approach but there is no such thing. It's a colloquial term encompassing the area across the river.

    Thanks

  11. #11
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    @R0b could you kindly let me know how to send a defence? Is it all done online and do I need to submit a witness statement and who do i do this? Sorry about all the questions.

    Thanks

  12. #12
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Sorry, I haven't read your thread properly, but the MCOL box only allows for a number of characters. For parking cases like these you are better off formulating a more official defence - your witness statement will come at a later stage, you are only at the beginning of proceedings.

    Before you start jumping ahead and submitting a defence you might want to take a step back. First of all, what is the date on the claim form? Is it the 15 September or 19 September? Even if it was the 15 September and you acknowledged the claim online, you have 33 days to file a defence. My calculations mean you have until 18 October to submit your defence and if the 19 September then you have until 23 October to submit it.

    Best not to rush into things and make sure you have a robust defence than a haphazard one which will get you no-where. The fact that you've been out of the country and lack of communication is unlikely going to get you very far if you have time to file a defence

    My initial thoughts from looking at things is that your main defence will be:

    1. the reliance on the tenancy agreement (you can put it in even if you can't get it right now, might make them think that you have a copy);
    2. the sign implies that the area is private land and parking on the area in question amounts to a trespass and not entering into a contract. In cases of trespass only those with exclusive possession can bring a claim and if they are simply managing the car park that is not exclusive possession.
    3. You are right to raise the unfair terms in respect of the tiny writing.
    4. The fact that the particulars of claim suggest you are the registered keeper and/or were the driver and is a generic and vague statement which means they don't actually know who was driving at the time. You should therefore require them to provide evidence of who was driving at the time (assuming you haven't told them who was driving in the first place?)

    There may be other arguments but that's your starting point. In terms of setting out a defence, see the link below as an example on how to set it out. You should have a stab at trying to draft something along the above lines and anything else you feel is relevant. If you do a search for residential parking claims on here there should be further info. Perhaps post up your draft example before submitting it for feedback.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddyxegiu2e...0v.01.doc?dl=0
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  13. #13
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi Charitynjw,

    I've managed to get a hold of the tenancy agreement and all it says in relation to parking is.

    17 PARKING
    17.1 There is not a car park space included with this property.

    Also Quiet Enjoment
    21. Quiet Enjoyment
    To allow the Tenant to quietly hold and enjoy the premises during the tenancy without any unlawful interruption by the landlord or any person rightfully claiming under, through or in trust for the Landlord or by title paramount.

  14. #14
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Ok, that gives you something to use.

    Does the tenancy agreement say anything specific about tenants visitors, etc?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  15. #15
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    No nothing at all about tenants visitors. The only mention of visitors is in line with repairs if a visitor damages something in the property.

  16. #16
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Could you type that bit verbatim?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  17. #17
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    To pay the Landlord or Agent the cost of any repairs of any mechanical or electrical appliances belonging to the Landlord arising from misuse or negligence by the Tenant, his family or his visitors.

    To replace promptly any broken glass with the same quality glass where the breakage was due to the negligence of the Tenant, his family or his visitors.

    10.17 To take all reasonable precautions to prevent infestation of the Premises and to pay for the eradication of any infestation caused by the negligence of the Tenant, his family or visitors.

    26 Other Repairs
    26.1 To keep in repair and proper working order, within a reasonable period of time, all mechanical and electrical items belonging to the Landlord and forming part of the Fixtures and Fittings, unless the lack of repair is due to the negligence or misuse of the Tenant, his family or visitors.

    34 Removal of Goods
    34.1 The Tenant will be responsible for meeting all reasonable removal and/or storage charges for Small Items, that are left at the Premises by the Tenant, or the Tenant’s guests or visitors, after the end of this agreement. For the purposes of this clause, Small Items are defined as those that which can be easily moved and stored by one person, without the use of moving equipment.

    36. Interruptions to the Tenancy
    36.1 If the Premises are destroyed or made uninhabitable by fire, or any other unforeseeable risk, rent will cease to be payable until the premises are reinstated and rendered habitable, unless the premises are rendered uninhabitable by anything (whether in whole or in part) done or not done by the Tenant, his family or visitors.

  18. #18
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Unless the resident has agreed in writing to vary the tenancy agreement (either personally or consented via a resident's assn or similar) it would seem that they have an unfettered right to park on the demised premises.
    This right can be derogated to include visitors.
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...enant-can.html
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  19. #19
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Hi R0b,

    I've drafted my defence still some work to do but I hope I'm going on the right direction. The date on the claim form is 15th August 2017. Please let me know what you think of my defence draft.

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    The date on the claim form is 15th August 2017.
    September?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  21. #21
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    In the paragraph sub-headed 'Signage' you come perilously close to ID'ing yourself as the person driving the vehicle at the time.
    If it were me I'd change the words 'I have...' to 'The driver has no contractual relationship....'.

    In the bit sub-headed 'Legal Right' you mention a tenancy agreement but imho you don't do enough to highlight your argument.
    The driver was visiting a resident.
    Resident's right for quiet enjoyment.
    Resident has not consented for the parking regime.
    The right can be used to cover visitors.
    Last edited by charitynjw; 12th October 2017 at 01:06:AM.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  22. #22
    Anneam12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form received from for parking ticket 3 years ago!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    September?
    Sorry yes 15th September.

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