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Thread: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

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  1. #26
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    I'll read back through you thread tomorrow.

    Saying "No" to Meditation may/may not be a good thing. You need to be advised on your legal options and the consequences of them (your choices).

    You have the freedom to 'fail' Mediation if you chose to go ahead with that option. Anything/everything discussed at Mediation is Without Prejudice so it can't be disclosed in ongoing court proceedings.

    The claim is not for a small amount (£8k+?) and the Claimant (Hoist Portfolio) is unlicensed.

    In fact unless I'm wrong (I'm always happy to be corrected) your thread is about TWO claims by Hoist for about £8k each.

    So which text/email from the Mediation Service has you received in relation to which claim?

    You have court claims against you for £16k so it's time to focus.

    You may have a viable Defence to one but not the other.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Hi all, I have a couple of questions. Back in May I responded to Cohens' Notice of Pending Legal Action letter with the following Pre Action Conduct letter:

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: Your Client – HPH Limited
    Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information

    With regard to your letter dated xxxxx 2017, which stated Legal Action would be taken, I take this to be a Letter before Action under the above named Pre Action Conduct Protocol and as such I am responding accordingly.

    As you have indicated you are acting on behalf of HPH Limited in this action, I assume you are authorised to accept service of documentation, therefore, please accept this request for Information sufficient to understand the claim being threatened and as such is in accordance Section 3 of the Pre Action Conduct, by way of Service Upon You and your client.

    As I have never entered into any Legal Agreement or Contract with your client, for any monies or specifically for the alleged amount of £xxxxx; and I neither accept nor acknowledge the assertion any debt has been Legally and Absolutely Assigned to your client, I therefore, request the following documentation under Pre Action Conduct Section 6 (c) as proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

    I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) a copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

    II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of £xxxxx.

    III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

    IV. In accordance with Section 87.1 Of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) a copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

    V. A copy of the Legal / Absolute Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of a Duly Executed Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation; and

    VI. In accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

    VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again, in accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how this was Served upon me.

    Should proceedings commence against me and your client fail to provide each and every document requested, I will make an Application to the Court to Stay your Clients claim until the request is complied with and request the Court impose Sanctions against yourself and your client for failure to adhere to the provisions of the above mentioned Practice Direction.

    Also please be aware, each document listed is required to provide absolute and legal proof of your client’s contention of a legal indebtedness towards them and again, should your client fail to produce said documentation and Proceedings Commence against me I will apply to the Court to Stay your Clients claim Until said documentation is received.

    As a part of my defence I will re-request production of each and every document under an appropriate Civil Procedure Rule, along with a request under CPR Part 39.a (3.3) for the original of every document upon which you intend to rely be brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

    Please note, where I have mentioned a document and there is in your clients possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

    I look forward to your response in due course.

    Yours faithfully...

    As the requested info hasn't been provided within the 40 days I am now considering making an Unless Order for each claim.

    So my question is would it be in my favour to request that both claims be amalgamated to one, as they originated with same bank etc, before making the unless orders? Then I would only need to make one unless order for the both. Thus saving £255.

    But as they are both for about 8k it would then bring them over 10k, so I presume then allocated to fast track yes? Would that be a bad move?

    Many thanks
    Last edited by Shinybee; 26th September 2017 at 22:56:PM.

  3. #28
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Thanks for your attention Di.

    Yes correct- two claims for about 8k each

    Can you explain the significance of the Claimant Hoist being unlicensed please?

    Received email and missed call for each claim today.

    My defences are identical.

  4. #29
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Thanks for your attention Di.

    Yes correct- two claims for about 8k each

    Received email and missed call for each claim today.

    My defences are identical.
    With respect I will be gobsmacked if your successful Defence(s) to both claims are identical (in legal terms)!

    Each claim/account may/will have a different legal history.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  5. #30
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Can you explain the significance of the Claimant Hoist being unlicensed please?
    Not on an internet forum.

    It's a complicated legal argument.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  6. #31
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    If the Claimant is unauthorised they are committing a criminal offence by carrying on a regulated activity ( Debt collection (rights under a credit agreement)). Hoist Finance UK Ltd are regulated ( and Rob Way are appointed rep of Hoist Finance (UK) ) however Hoist Portfolio Holdings aren't.

    You can check authorisation here - > https://register.fca.org.uk/shpo_sea...=3wq1nht7eg7tr

    Regarding your request for documents and unless order query - did you send a further CCA or CPR 31.14 request after the claims were issued or just in the pre-action letter response?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  7. #32
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    The problem I guess is, as PT said on another post; when using 'law' and I use that term to cover all aspects, in a defence, you need to be able to explain what the significance is if the case goes to trial and you are questioned on it.
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  8. #33
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Here is a summary of events so far:

    10/4/17 sent letter 1 to Robison,
    11/5/17 received Notice of Legal Pending Action from H Cohen
    21/05/17 sent Pre Action Conduct letter to H Cohen
    3/7/17 CCBC issued
    14/7/17 CPR18 Request for further info sent to H Cohen
    17/7/17 CCA request inc £1 sent to Hoist
    24/7/17 received letter from Robinson acknowledging agreement request and account put on "hold"
    31/7/17 defence sent
    20/8/17 DQ received.
    I can see that you've sent s 77-79 CCA Requests and Part 18 Questions but it appears you may not have sent a CPR 31.14 Request. Is that correct?

    Have you received your SAR response from Barclays yet because that may give you some idea whether the documentation exists if/when the Claimant asks them for it?

    You say that both these accounts were opened in 2013 so there's a possibility that the information may be available since that's fairly recent. Did you open them online?

    You were also unsure whether you had PPI on either/both of the accounts so that will become clear when you get the SAR information.

    I think you need to establish a few more facts before rushing in with an Application (or two) for an Unless Order.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  9. #34
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Hi Shineybee

    Can I just check
    Your part 18 - was this just the same questions as I would advise on a CPR31.14 request - basically the documents mentioned in the POC?

    I ask because I notice you said you had sent letter 1 which is the M.O. of the discredited and defunct GOODF forum. They were the ones who also recommended using part 18 instead of CPR 31.14 however they were sadly misinformed (again) of the purposes of a part 18.

    I don't want to take away from what @Diana M said

    I can see that you've sent s 77-79 CCA Requests and Part 18 Questions but it appears you may not have sent a CPR 31.14 Request. Is that correct?

    Have you received your SAR response from Barclays yet because that may give you some idea whether the documentation exists if/when the Claimant asks them for it?

    You say that both these accounts were opened in 2013 so there's a possibility that the information may be available since that's fairly recent. Did you open them online?

    You were also unsure whether you had PPI on either/both of the accounts so that will become clear when you get the SAR information.

    I think you need to establish a few more facts before rushing in with an Application (or two) for an Unless Order.

    Di
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  10. #35
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Ah thanks for clarifying that for me Amethyst. So if Hoist are not registered then they have no authority to do business with me, right? And could I have put that in my defence?

    Yes sent CCA but rather than sending CPR31.14 I sent CPR18 as I was following GOODF info at the time and they recommended that because claim was under 10k.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Yes Di correct, I sent CPR18 rather than the CPR31.14

    Ive sent a reminder To barclays for SAR, awaiting reply.

    Ok I won't rush the UO

    Thanks

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Hi
    I am just thinking

    The DQ you received, was it sent by the claimants solicitor?
    Did you receive one from the court which you returned?


    Has your claim been allocated to a track yet? If not you could send a CPR

    If your answers are yes yes and no you could still get the cpr31.14 request sent off asap
    As for using the unlicensed bit in your defence , you have submitted your defence so unless you can amend it it may be very difficult to get it admitted in court. The the easiest way to amend your defence is if the claimant agrees or you have to pay and ask the court.

    As for putting the unlicensed to the court, well I have no idea how that needs to be done and exactly what case law or precedents you would use so I am not even going to go there

    As you have the two claims that is 16K , an awful lot of money and I know if it was one claim it would be fast track and costs would be involved
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Hi warwick65, yep you were right, I was researching from GOODF before I thankfully found this site.

    Yes
    Yes

    Ive been offered small claims mediation and received proposed allocation small claims track claim, but thats it.


    This is the CpR18 letter I sent:

    HOWARD COHEN AND CO
    SUITE 1B
    JOSEPH’S WELL
    HANOVER WALK,
    LEEDS
    W. YORKS
    LS3 1AB

    xx7/17

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re: HOIST PORTFOLIO HOLDING LTD v XXXXXXXXX

    CPR18 Request for further information.

    On the xx July 2017, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court, dated 3/7/17.
    I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

    Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim, and on which you intend to rely. That request was ignored.

    Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR18 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim and is made by way of Service upon You:

    1.The agreement/contract, including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
    2.The deed of assignment
    3.The notice of assignment
    4.The default warning letter
    5.The default notice

    6. I deny any indebtedness to the Claimant but particularly deny they are due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £XXXX and as such I request full disclosure of the amount the Claimant alleges to have paid for this alleged debt.

    7. Also, your Particulars of Claim state the action is brought for Breach of Agreement, yet you have failed to identify the specific Statutory Instrument you have commenced proceedings under. Therefore, I would be request details of the Statutory Instrument under which you have brought proceedings.

    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 18 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Failure to produce each and every document referenced within the Particulars of Claim (detailed above) will result in an Application to the Court for an Order of Disclosure.

    Your CPR 18 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

    Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions, which are now in the possession of a third party.

    If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

    If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

    Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

    Yours faithfully


    Thank you for your attention warwick65.

  14. #39
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    I can see that you've sent s 77-79 CCA Requests and Part 18 Questions but it appears you may not have sent a CPR 31.14 Request. Is that correct?

    Have you received your SAR response from Barclays yet because that may give you some idea whether the documentation exists if/when the Claimant asks them for it?

    You say that both these accounts were opened in 2013 so there's a possibility that the information may be available since that's fairly recent. Did you open them online?

    You were also unsure whether you had PPI on either/both of the accounts so that will become clear when you get the SAR information.

    I think you need to establish a few more facts before rushing in with an Application (or two) for an Unless Order.

    Di
    Hi Di,

    please could you elaborate on which facts you think I need to establish before I make Unless Order Application(s)?

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by warwick65 View Post
    Hi
    I am just thinking

    The DQ you received, was it sent by the claimants solicitor?
    Did you receive one from the court which you returned?


    Has your claim been allocated to a track yet? If not you could send a CPR

    If your answers are yes yes and no you could still get the cpr31.14 request sent off asap
    As for using the unlicensed bit in your defence , you have submitted your defence so unless you can amend it it may be very difficult to get it admitted in court. The the easiest way to amend your defence is if the claimant agrees or you have to pay and ask the court.

    As for putting the unlicensed to the court, well I have no idea how that needs to be done and exactly what case law or precedents you would use so I am not even going to go there

    As you have the two claims that is 16K , an awful lot of money and I know if it was one claim it would be fast track and costs would be involved
    Hi warwick65, have I screwed up big time by sending CPR18 rather than CPR31.14?

  16. #41
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Hi,
    Im not really sure what I am waiting for?
    Should I contact mediation and inform them I have not received any documentation?
    Is now good time to make applications for unless orders.
    Feeling really alone with this right now : (

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    too early for a unless order

    mediation will contact you and ask the question

    slow down before you go jump into the abiss read other threads on the same subject and see the way it forms

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    I am not sure if I would say it was a big time screw up but if you have not received allocation to the Small claim track I would send a CPR31.14off asap.

    As Mike says, it is far too early for an Unless order - if you read around you will see that some people have had problems with an unless order with things such as costs being awarded against them or the claimant actually lifting the stay and getting a judgement.
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  19. #44
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Im not really sure what I am waiting for?
    Should I contact mediation and inform them I have not received any documentation?
    Is now good time to make applications for unless orders.
    Feeling really alone with this right now : (
    I've replied to your PM

    You have no reason to feel alone.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Ok thank you... little overwhelmed at the moment ...

    I will send off CPR31.14 today -should i just omit the following paragraph as I've filed my defence already?:

    "To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on xx/xx/xxxx."

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Ok thank you... little overwhelmed at the moment ...

    I will send off CPR31.14 today -should i just omit the following paragraph as I've filed my defence already?:

    "To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on xx/xx/xxxx."

    I replaced with:" To enable me to proceed with this case, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case."

    Both cpr's sent off.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    I've replied to your PM

    You have no reason to feel alone.

    Di

    Thank you Di, I appreciate your words. Its reassuring to hear : )

    (btw i didn't realise i pm'd you)

  23. #48
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Thank you Di, I appreciate your words. Its reassuring to hear : )

    (btw i didn't realise i pm'd you)
    You're absolutely right.

    The PM which I received/replied to was from another forum member with an uncannily similar username.

    We (Joanna Connolly Solicitors) are often approached for free professional legal help by LB forum members with court claims where ‘unenforceability ‘ may be a potential legal argument.

    From what I can see you have two £8k county court claims where the Claimanti is unlicensed or have I misunderstood your legal situation ?

    Di
    Last edited by Diana M; 3rd October 2017 at 21:00:PM.
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  24. #49
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    You're absolutely right.

    The PM which I received/replied to was from another forum member with an uncannily similar username.

    We (Joanna Connolly Solicitors) are often approached for free professional legal help by LB forum members with court claims where ‘unenforceability ‘ may be a potential legal argument.

    From what I can see you have two £8k county court claims where the Claimanti is unlicensed or have I misunderstood your legal situation ?

    Di
    Yes Di correct, it appears so. Is this significant grounds for my favour?

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Received SAR from Barclays today. Seems to include an application and lots of statemnets and memos of Hoist requesting info...

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