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Thread: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

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  1. #126
    Shinybee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Is there any sign of the year on that at all - can you make out the version code bottom right ? I doubt its the original agreement as looks like default charges are £12 ( and they changed to that in 2006 ) and it's barclaycard not Egg. So wondering if it's the terms as varied from when egg were sold off to barclaycard(2011?) or at the terms at point of default (2016)
    in the bottom right is a date : 14/08/2014

  2. #127
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Think that's the lot, other than statements which we don't really need ATM - can you see any interest rate / default charge / late payment charge applied etc from the beginning or is it just the list of transactions?
    show's interest rate/ default charge/ late payment


    thank you for your time Amethyst

  3. #128
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    That's okay. I know it can be a pest getting docs uploaded onto here sometimes. Once we get the upgrade sorted in a couple weeks we'll have a big shiny button to make it easy - can't wait ! lol.

    Hopefully now Di will be able to give you a bit of guidance on sorting out what defence you have available and which angle to come from - you have a week I think before your WS is due to be exchanged so if you are going to amend you will need to get things sorted asap.
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  4. #129
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    I had a look at the so called "true copy" of the agreement and the actual agreement itself. I have noticed a few major differences in the headings, so it could get interesting!

    Actual agreement

    5. Using your account (copy agreement says "Repayments")

    6. Paying your bill (same heading on both)

    7. Additional cardholders (this is no 8 on the copy agreement)

    9. Closing your account (says "statements" on the copy)

    10. Getting in touch (says "Limit of Liabilities" on the copy)

    This is exactly what you need if you are going to find a big hole in the case and totally vindicated what I said earlier, which is that companies KNOWINGLY LIE when it comes to providing copies of the true agreement.

    The true agreement is meant to be an exact word for word reproduction of the original, albeit it can be in a different format.

    Obviously, I could not read the small print on the original, but there is more than enough evidence to show that the so called "true copy" is anything but that!

  5. #130
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    [QUOTE=thedirtyhound;761912]I had a look at the so called "true copy" of the agreement and the actual agreement itself. I have noticed a few major differences in the headings, so it could get interesting!

    Actual agreement

    5. Using your account (copy agreement says "Repayments")

    6. Paying your bill (same heading on both)

    7. Additional cardholders (this is no 8 on the copy agreement)

    9. Closing your account (says "statements" on the copy)

    10. Getting in touch (says "Limit of Liabilities" on the copy)

    This is exactly what you need if you are going to find a big hole in the case and totally vindicated what I said earlier, which is that companies KNOWINGLY LIE when it comes to providing copies of the true agreement.

    The true agreement is meant to be an exact word for word reproduction of the original, albeit it can be in a different format.

    Obviously, I could not read the small print on the original, but there is more than enough evidence to show that the so called "true copy" is anything but that![/QUOTE


    The real question is how would a DJ view this? My view is that they are suspicious of attempts to "evade" responsibility.

  6. #131
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    I believe the attachments in posts 117/118 are a recon of the original agreement terms ( cover sheet doesn't work really, and there's no name/address creditor/debtor ) - and attachments in posts 119/120 are terms as varied ( from 2014) - half illegible. There's no executed agreement copy/recon.
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  7. #132
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    @thedirtyhound

    If I am reading what has been presented correctly , I believe you are misinterpreting the legislation.

    I suspect that the two sets of terms and conditions are one from inception and one from default, if that is the case they do not have to be in the same order with the same numbers relating to the same details - they are revised terms and conditions.

    However as I do not know exactly what was sent to SB it is impossible to say if they comply with S78 however

    As for the rest of your discussion in a previous post , while I would love to get involved and maybe explain why I believe some of your claims are wrong this is not the time or the place
    @Shinybee
    This was exactly why I thought your original statements about having two claims for agreements that were always barclaycard , opened about the same time and with similar amounts seemed odd. Clearly one of them was an egg account.

    It would also reinforce what @Diana M said when she said something along the lines of she would eat her hat if both defences argued the same things


    You now need to get an amended defence in because you can not plead arguments in your WS that are not in your defence and you have included in your defence the potential need to amend it.

    I can not, however, help you on the process as I do not know - all I will say, as Amethyst has said, time is against you

    In my opinion you really really do need professional advice and as Diana m seems to have some knowledge of your claims because she has been on this thread I would suggest you contact her - if you haven't done so already
    Last edited by warwick65; 9th November 2017 at 10:13:AM.
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  8. #133
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=Spirit200;761926]
    Quote Originally Posted by thedirtyhound View Post
    I had a look at the so called "true copy" of the agreement and the actual agreement itself. I have noticed a few major differences in the headings, so it could get interesting!

    Actual agreement

    5. Using your account (copy agreement says "Repayments")

    6. Paying your bill (same heading on both)

    7. Additional cardholders (this is no 8 on the copy agreement)

    9. Closing your account (says "statements" on the copy)

    10. Getting in touch (says "Limit of Liabilities" on the copy)

    This is exactly what you need if you are going to find a big hole in the case and totally vindicated what I said earlier, which is that companies KNOWINGLY LIE when it comes to providing copies of the true agreement.

    The true agreement is meant to be an exact word for word reproduction of the original, albeit it can be in a different format.

    Obviously, I could not read the small print on the original, but there is more than enough evidence to show that the so called "true copy" is anything but that![/QUOTE


    The real question is how would a DJ view this? My view is that they are suspicious of attempts to "evade" responsibility.
    I don't accept your cynicism.

    A DJ can only try the case according to the law.

    It is up to the claimant to prove its case. Part of the requirement is to produce a copy of the agreement. If not an original copy, then a "true copy".

    There have been numerous cases detailed on these pages when cases have been thrown out because what has been submitted by the claimant as a "true copy" has turned out to be anything but that.

    Under those circumstances, a DJ has little option other than to dismiss the claim, whether they like it or not. In fact, if he/she did not, it would be an error in law and would give grounds for an appeal.

  9. #134
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    The cover letter from the solicitor seems interesting because they refer to substantial balance transfers not too long before the account defaulted . I wonder if they are going to suggest to the court that Shineybee did this deliberately and is a debt dodger thus making them a less than reliable witness - as was the case with Mrs Frost (unreliable witness)
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
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    Any advice is offered without liability
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  10. #135
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Think I missed uploading this sheet.

    This seems to be the signature sheet but can't see you have redacted anything from it.

    For comparison here's an Egg 2003 agreement - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...03-credit-Card
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  11. #136
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by warwick65 View Post
    @thedirtyhound

    If I am reading what has been presented correctly , I believe you are misinterpreting the legislation.

    I suspect that the two sets of terms and conditions are one from inception and one from default, if that is the case they do not have to be in the same order with the same numbers relating to the same details - they are revised terms and conditions.

    However as I do not know exactly what was sent to SB it is impossible to say if they comply with S78 however

    As for the rest of your discussion in a previous post , while I would love to get involved and maybe explain why I believe some of your claims are wrong this is not the time or the place

    @Shineybee
    This was exactly why I thought your original statements about having two claims for agreements that were always barclaycard , opened about the same time and with similar amounts seemed odd. Clearly one of them was an egg account.

    It would also reinforce what @Diana M said when she said something along the lines of she would eat her hat if both defences argued the same things


    You now need to get an amended defence in because you can not plead arguments in your WS that are not in your defence and you have included in your defence the potential need to amend it.

    I can not, however, help you on the process as I do not know - all I will say, as Amethyst has said, time is against you

    In my opinion you really really do need professional advice and as Diana m seems to have some knowledge of your claims because she has been on this thread I would suggest you contact her - if you haven't done so already
    The fundamental document is the one signed initially. Subsequent amendments to the Ts & Cs are irrelevant, especially if another lender took over the account. I'm not mistaken on this point!

    But I agree that this is now a matter for the professionals to deal with.

    In fact, if people got the pros involved from day one, their lives would be a lot easier. There are too many posts on this site generally from people who have clearly ignored everything in the hope that it will go away, only for them to end up receiving a claim. Then they find themselves in a panic. Sometimes a good "F... OFF" letter from a solicitor to a debt purchase company can blow the problem away before it even gets off the ground. It has worked well for me.

    Finally, one place NEVER to go is a Citizens Advice Bureau. If you want legal advice, go to someone fully qualified to give it!

  12. #137
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Yes claimant has until 12/12/17 to pay fee.

    trial date 9/1/18
    You've received a Notice of Allocation (Hearing).

    The Trial has been listed for 9th January 2018.

    What does it say (Directions) about filing your Witness Statement?

    Normally it would say 14 days before the Trial but since courts will be closed over the Christmas/New Year period the deadline may be date specific for late December.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    you have a week I think before your WS is due to be exchanged so if you are going to amend you will need to get things sorted asap.
    I can't see anything posted on this thread which says the WS deadline is in a week's time.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  13. #138
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    I can't see anything posted on this thread which says the WS deadline is in a week's time.
    Ahh nope you're right, I was confusing it with the another case which is due on 16th Nov The hearing letter should give the date for the WS Exchange ( normally on the second page of the hearing letter from court )
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  14. #139
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    These are the court papers sent to me
    Attached Files Attached Files

  15. #140
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by warwick65 View Post
    The cover letter from the solicitor seems interesting because they refer to substantial balance transfers not too long before the account defaulted . I wonder if they are going to suggest to the court that Shineybee did this deliberately and is a debt dodger thus making them a less than reliable witness - as was the case with Mrs Frost (unreliable witness)
    Yes I noticed that too- like it couldn’t have been someone who may have used a 0% transfer to pay off a previous expiring 0% transfer and then realised they couldn’t maintain payments...

  16. #141
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    Default Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding v Shinybee

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinybee View Post
    Yes I noticed that too- like it couldn’t have been someone who may have used a 0% transfer to pay off a previous expiring 0% transfer and then realised they couldn’t maintain payments...
    Hi
    I wasn't passing judgement and should you need it I am sure there is a perfectly valid reason. In fact, by telling you that they may have done you a favour so you can be prepared.

    I hope you are able to find representation as I am sure this egg card is very defendable.

    I am sadly cynical about just how fair the law is and how it favours people who can get representation over the Litigant in person.
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

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