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Thread: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

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  1. #26
    bb41's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    I'm not understanding.. the heating has always worked well, the windows have all been replaced recently and all gas safety certificates have been made available since they moved in 12 years ago ... I'm really perplexed by everything.. I've never even had an advisory with the heating ... yes the stats are all working fine... the tenant is on meter and know that at times they complain about the cold but I can't pay for the bloody heating as well !!

    It seems I have a power struggle on my hands

    - - - Updated - - -

    To be honest after spending over 5 k on a new bathroom, electrical safety certificate... I really am not doing anymore.. they haven't paid any rent except from HB, over 4 k in arrears now and a S21 expiring 17th October they can all go and swing... The bit that really is getting my goat is I've been sent a form to let the EO know whether I have a mortgage , whether I have another investor in the property... what the hell is it to do with them ???

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    wow, thats seems a bit of a jobsworth.

    The bit that really is getting my goat is I've been sent a form to let the EO know whether I have a mortgage , whether I have another investor in the property... what the hell is it to do with them ???
    i need to ask somebody some advice on this, i will ring them tomorrow.

    Are you prepared to ring them in the moring, ask them why they asked that at this stage ????

    I do understand they do this at the twoards the end of the process, but usualy as they are about to take further action.

    I find that if you use one point of contact, like the housing officer, who seems to be a bit more realsitic about the possition, to explain the position with the others to get them to eas off a bit.

    Be carfull going forward here what you say to who, not that you have to be gaureded, but, you do. Serve the section 8 asap, i suspect teh tenant my try and defend the s21, so back yourself up with that

    Then email the council explain what you have spent so far, and that you willing to do ay required work but they should consider that you have already paid 5k out on the bathroom ( fill out here if the tenat has caused damage through neglect )
    Your tenant is substantialy in arrears and they are increasing weekly, they are refusing to pay
    Your considering selling when they rehouse the tenant, you you evict them, due to the costs and stress since the tenats new partner moved in
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Yes the housing officer is reasonable.. but it seems I am being cornered and I understand vulnerable tenants have to be safe guarded against unscrupulous LL's , but I have done everything to safe guard the tenants interest.
    Now when I financially can't do anymore I'm threatened with fines and god knows what .

    I'm pretty sure they don't want to stay as they say they want to be re-housed outside the area and can't wait , but as I believe they are under social services with the new born this EO has deemed me as ruthless as many LL's

    The house will be put up for sale as soon as they have left as I have to pay off debts that have accrued in the last 18 months , I'm afraid I don't do debt of any description and the stress is far too much for me to cope with

    The housing officer has spoken to me at length and has even said not to do any of the out standing jobs due to the arrears and damage done to the kitchen just the electrical safety certificate which happened today.

    Sorry to offload but life for me is on hold until these people leave, I am even putting my own house up for sale to see if I can release cash to help .

    Many people look and say that I am lucky to have my own home let alone a second, but I worked darned hard for it and it was my pension . I had to pay my mortgage when I was young and had children, I don't understand why others can't do the same ... and if you can't afford to have another child then why is it right to expect a tax payer to pay for them to do so ?

    Sorry going off on a tangent , but the last nearly 2 years have been hell , a lot of my own doing as I gave them many chances but never thought I'd be demanded to pay for things that are just not of my doing

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Just been reading through the various threads you have posted since 2016.

    It seems to me like your tenant's partner may be behind all the problems you are having with Environmental Health. As he is relatively new to the household, odds are that he has been the tenant from hell somewhere else before landing on your doorstep.

    I assume that the Environmental H/O carried out a Health and Safety Housing Standards risk assessment when he came round a little while back. Did he send you a copy of his report or just give you a list of what he felt needed to be done?

    I don't know if this will help or not and I know it is a lot of work but, get together all the gas safety checks you have had done over the last 12 years. List all the items that you are aware of them reporting as repairs. If possible back this up with when they contacted you and when the repair work was carried out. With a bit of luck you will be able to establish a pattern of escalating damages since the partner joined the household.

    The burned out kitchen - you must have some records of who undertook the work, when and how much it cost. If you replaced it via Insurance claim, or even paid out of your own pocket it must go some way to prove to the EO that your tenants have not been living in a wreck of a property with a landlord who does no repairs.

    My other thought is that if all the sudden repairs, Central Heating valves, electric sockets, dangerous placement of cooker, damage to the kitchen, bathroom damage etc - while some items may be down to wear and tear (radiator valves perhaps) most of this has to be deliberate and for that you need to get some figures together because when you do eventually get rid of them, you need to sue for damages.

    OK your tenant may have benefits but..... You can apply to the DWP to have deductions taken from their benefits but this needs to be done by court judgement. Likewise if she is still working, you can also get an attachment to earnings - CCJ .

    As to the Environmental H/O being on a fishing trip with your mortgage etc. Somehow you need to find a way to get him to work with you and not see you as the enemy. Maybe you need to make it plain that all the costs because of the recent damages and the possibility of E/O doing the work and fining you alongside would more than likely end up with your property being repossessed and/or forcing the sale of the property you currently live in.

    Good luck - I think you need it

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Thank you for that in-depth reply it really is helpful.. I don't have a mortgage on the property... that may sound as though everything is over dramatised but to pay off the mortgage was always my main aim and sacrificed a lot to do it

    I've asked the EO for help and advise but this may sound harsh but I checked her profile as she has a very distinctive name and it's her first job since uni and power seems to gone to her head , all I get is " you must do this, or we fine you" "if you don't do this we will fine you "

    The damages are deliberate there is no doubt about that... I was advised to go further after they have left but they have nothing and all I would do is end up paying to get nothing

    After many years of industrial letting I will hang my residential letting pencils up and never ever do this again .. certainly not for HB tenants.. The sad thing is the need for housing is huge and yet when a private LL wants to gain back possession the council do everything to stop you doing so ... no wonder there aren't enough properties for vulnerable tenants to rent

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    I kind of got the impression that the EO was baying for blood. My bigger worry is that they have the law behind them to enforce and penalise you if they want to.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Yes I know I'm on the losing side... just don't understand that my part of the deal is to jump through hoops, the tenants is to pay the rent... normally when either doesn't uphold their end the contract is broken... beggars bloody belief ..seems it only works one way

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Hi

    The reason they asked morgage details is not as bad in general as it may seem, sometime LLs can nt afford to do repairs, and sometimes councils can arrainge them and put it as a charge against the property, this is usualy a lot further down the line though.

    Also, the way benefits are paid is changing, my area has been trialing it, universal credit, they pay them everything, and they pay direct, like every other type of tenant. Speaking to a number of LLs and an agent, all agree that after an initial bump, its made getting paid easyer and make no difference now between benefits or working

    make sure you fill out and serve the section 8, it will put presure on them,
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    yes you are right, I have to be ruthless.. I will let you all know how it progresses

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Section 8 printed and signed... I am right that with rent arrears I can apply to court 2 weeks after serving the notice ?

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Yep, it has to be 14 clear days,

    Sometimes, the TTs think the court app date, is actual the eviction date. Also, it makes a difference to what property they can get, they will know this.

    Expect a backlash from the tenants when its served, but just sit and wait it out,
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Yes I have forewarned a few weeks ago.. I think as they know they will be re-housed due to a newborn and the need to leave as soon as possible the tenant won't be that bothered.. I think my problem will be with the EO as she will feel the need to pile even more pressure on me..

    I have got a few weeks before I have to send the information questionnaire re: mortgage lenders etc off so will wait until the latest possible day

    I will send the notice with a proof of posting... reading up as much as possible on the procedure it seems a proof of posting is better than a signature as the tenants more than likely won't sign for anything.... I think if I have had a no more than a couple of hours sleep each night for the last few months I won't be exaggerating

    I have advertised on rated people to get a new work top replaced and plastering of the kitchen walls to be done ASAP, I will have to do the kitchen to sell so might as well arrange for it to be done whilst HB is being paid although checked the rental acc today and nothing from tenants.

    I have received 150.00 from them since May . They are supposed to be paying 152.00 per week which includes repaying a small amount of debt

    You can tell I sit scouring the net constantly as I reply to posts fairly quickly !!! I eat drink and sleep debt and section 8's and 21's... I will sadly be an expert at the end of all this.

    Sadly I won't get any of my expenses back.. and not sure it will go as an expense on my capital gains tax.... one for the accountant next year

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Just a very tiny update . I served the Section 8 with proof of posting with 2 weeks notice to apply to court for a possession order. That runs out on 22nd September.

    Worryingly I have heard nothing...

    Just one question , the 2 weeks notice is up Friday 22nd September... can I apply to the court that day or will I have to wait until the Monday ?

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Not sure, i think you can on the date, from memory, the wording says, on or after the date..

    worth chasing the housing officer up for an update ?
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    I will have check through the wording my electrical safety certificate has been done now and the rest on the EO forms had to be done with a 4 month time limit... predominantly stats on the rads and the kitchen refurb.

    I have to do the refurb to sell as it's a total mess so my plan is to find out if I can get the possession order granted and then start getting quotes for a very cheap kitchen installed whilst waiting to get a warrant . I can hopefully make a start then and will still be within the 4 month conditions set out by the EO and hopefully the tenants wont be in situ for too long so as not to make a mess of the new one

    Thankfully I have copied all evidence of emails setting up previous payment plans to start making a dent in the arrears and copies of all payments by HB and any payments from tenants .

    I am nearly up to 5k in arrears at the beginning of October so hopefully on the section 8 I will be granted a possession order. Tenants have stopped paying completely since May when I had a 100.00 payment ..

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    There stuff you can do to ,,,, move things along,

    You can not, hassle the tenant during the notice eviction process, but, you can, with three days written notice, get acsess as ofterns as you need.

    For instance, in your curcs, its not unreasonable if you arrainge
    a few estate agents to look around as your intending to sell, or its an ootin your considering
    a few peole to go mesure up, quote for work
    checks on any works done..
    ect ect




    I find, especialy when they have been in the property many years, seeing estate agents, and workers tends to let it sink in its the end, before you have to send in baillifs.
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    That's helpful as I do need to sell ASAP, I hate running up debts but really unavoidable at the min... the kitchen is the most in need so will get that done and quotes in and maybe arrange for the work to be done in a month or so ..

    Really appreciate all your advice it's been a godsend ..thank you

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Me again...just re-reading section 8 and I notice this


    • - Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 3, 4, 7B, 8, 10 to 13, 14ZA, 14A,15 or 17, (without ground 7A or 14), court proceedings cannot begin earlier than 2weeks from the date this notice is served. If one of 1, 2, 5 to 7, 9 or 16 grounds is alsospecified court proceedings cannot begin earlier than two months from the date thisnotice is served.

      I am going just for 8 and 10..As I read that is it not the case that I can start the PCOL now as the chance of getting a court date next week is pretty nigh on impossible ...straw clutching here !!


  19. #44
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Hi, yes you can start the court action as long as there has been 2 weeks between serving them the notice, and the date you start.

    Worth keeping ( but not bugging ) the housing manager at the council informed, The court booking systems can determin how fast/slow these go as well, so sometime worth ringing and asking how long it may take.

    Maybe worth explaining ( in a nice way ) to the housing manager and works manager that your now spending money on court stuff for these tenants, instead of doing the repaires. and that the tenants have told you, they wont move untill they get offered someware

    See if you can move things along at that end
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Thanks CC for coming back to me I will start the PCOL tomorrow and then get in touch with housing officer.. I had to have a builder go round today to have a look at the kitchen as the environmental officer is really on my case for some reason

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    So PCOL has been done and a court date of October 17th so not too much of a horrendous wait. The worst bit was filling out all the payments and arrears on each month for the last 18 months as HB is paid 4 weekly and rent is due PCM .
    I've used 8 and 10 as the section 8 reasons so hopefully the court will see since December 2015 full rent has never been paid and has mounted up each month .
    I'm absolutely scared witless going as I'm sure there will be a technicality I've missed out on and I will have to start the whole process again.
    The section 21 expires on that date too so I suppose I will have to wait to find out the outcome of the hearing before I continue on that process . Why is it so hard to get your property back and yet still have to conform to all the legalities for the tenant. ?
    The rent owing on the section 8 is slightly different as a payment has been made since issuing it and the court application ...not by much but I needed to give the court the latest arrears right up to present date .
    One day I might be out of this horrible mess ...who knows

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    hi

    I'm absolutely scared witless going as I'm sure there will be a technicality I've missed out on and I will have to start the whole process again.
    You learn lots the first time, but with arrears at this scale, people tend to be helpfull as long as the paperorks ok.. Get ready for a backlash from the TT and partner. Just weather it

    Inform the council works manager that you have a court date, ( might not make a difference but could do )

    get a backup plan ready of needed, Am not suggesting using this route, am just saying to do the planning now, so whatever the council or tenant push in your way, you know you can end it. and you have a worse case sinario for costs

    https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/...s-and-bailiffs and

    https://thesheriffsoffice.com/articl...the-high-court
    crazy council ( as in local council,NELC ) as a member of the public, i don't get mad, i get even

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    What would I do without you CC, I'm bricking it ... the court date and what to expect... the thought of it failing fills me with dread .. I don't want to waffle at the hearing.. What happens if tenant doesn't turn up ..will it be adjourned ??

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Quote Originally Posted by bb41 View Post
    What would I do without you CC, I'm bricking it ... the court date and what to expect... the thought of it failing fills me with dread .. I don't want to waffle at the hearing.. What happens if tenant doesn't turn up ..will it be adjourned ??
    If they fail to attend the hearing will proceed in their absence and you'll likely be granted a possession order. As they say they want to be re-homed, I'd be surprised if they do turn up and fighting the eviction would prevent that, however stranger things have happened.
    My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other out comes.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Help ..me again . Tenant now 4k in arrears and trouble with EO

    Thanks Jaguar, the sleepless nights begin

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