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Thread: **DISCONTINUED!!** Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

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  1. #1
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    Default **DISCONTINUED!!** Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Hey guys

    In 2012 I fell behind on my payments O2 due to difficult personal circumstances. I was temporarily cut off and had debt collectors contacting me for the payments. I contacted O2 and was advised that I had to pay £160 to the debt collectors which was the outstanding balance plus a reconnection fee - in order to be reconnected. I did this in the timescale given but due to a lack of communication between O2 and the debt collectors regarding receipt of my payment- I was not reconnected in time and was told that as a result I would have to pay the remaining line rental. I complained about this at the time to O2 but got nowhere and was continuously passed between them and the debt collector.
    In June this year, I received county court claim forms from Lowell Portfolio who have purchased the debt - claiming I owe £1422.61. I filed a defence with the courts stating the above that I do not owe this debt as I made the original payment in time. I sent a CPP request to Lowell asking for the original documents that they have referred to in their particulars of claim on the 18/07/2017 and have had no response. I also sent a SARS request form to O2 requesting any account notes/online chat transcripts etc that would show the conversations I had with them regarding original payment and reconnection etc - and they have responded saying they do not keep anything for longer than 2 years so cannot provide me with the evidence I need.
    I have since received a directions questionnaire from the county courts as Lowell are willing to go to mediation and that is as far as I have got. I need to reply to the court accepting or refusing mediation but do not know what to do for the best now. I don't think mediation would be the right path as I outright dispute the entire debt so will not agree on a reduced amount but will I be able to defend in court without the original documents from O2?

    any advice would be appreciated! Thanks

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    tagging @Amethyst @nemesis45 @Diana M @warwick65 ... help please!!
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Hiya xxx

    Firstly, what did you enter as your defence?
    Also, Do do you have a record of the payment you made to the debt collector ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Hi!! Thankyou for your quick response!! My defence was just explaining that I made the original payment in time etc. Yeah I have email receipts and the payment on my bank statement.

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Nice one. And do you have a letter or some kind of evidence showing when you were required to make the payment by?

    Goodness only knows how it's gone from £160 and reconnection fee ( £145? ) to £1422.61 - the remaining line rental was over £1k ? Have you requested any information from Lowell at all about the debt ? assignment notice, default, how the debts been calculated etc? If not we may need to get that sorted - if you can post the particulars of claim from the claim form that would be great.

    It's fine to put no to mediation in your situation as you deny the debt in full, pretty much regardless of what paperwork they produce.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Carm0512's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    I don't have anything evidencing when the original payment needed to be made by with it being so long ago. That's why I contacted O2 with a SARS request because I knew it would be on online chat transcripts but they have replied saying they have nothing as they only keep it all for two years.

    Ive sent a CPP to Lowell using the template on this page, requesting any information they have but had no response from them even though it was sent in June - recorded delivery too so I know it got there.

    the particulars of the claim are -




    1) The defendant entered into an agreement with O2 (UK) Ltd under account reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    2) The defendant failed to maintain the required payments and the service was terminated.
    3) The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 28/09/2012 and notice given to the defendant
    4) Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of £1,178.34 remains due and outstanding.
    And the claimant claims
    A) The said sum of £1,178.34
    B) Interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Aft 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue, accruing a daily rate of £0.258, but limited to one year being £94.27
    C) costs

    :-)
    Last edited by Amethyst; 15th August 2017 at 12:21:PM.

  7. #7
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Okay, when it comes to it you can plead that in your witness statement and Lowell will have to prove otherwise. So your CPR letter asked for the agreement and notice of assignment, they've not responded at all. Sorry just seen you did mention that in your first post - so all good.

    YIp get your directions questionnaire back in, completely up to you about mediation, you can just say you don't have any documents and you dispute their claim in full, and the mediation would likely not go ahead. Plus you're under no obligation to accept any offer.

    My only concern is that the O2 call centre bod that told you when to pay by wasn't correct under the terms of the contract - and as we have no evidence it's going to be your word against whatever the terms say ( if they provide them ) .... it is an argument though for disclosure of the actual agreement and terms.

    Do you have the response from O2 as to your SAR request too? That will need to go in your witness statement later to show you tried to get that info and O2 refused. Be interesting if they do suddenly pop up with it for Lowell.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    I've only had a quick glance at your thread but Mediation is not about admitting a debt (claim) it's about seeing if there's any common ground to resolve issues.

    I was recently involved in a Mediation (for personal not my firm's reasons) which was to do with a hopeless claim issued by an awkward person in relation to a property where he is my tenant.

    To cut a long story short the mediation settlement was that he agreed to discontinue the claim and make a formal apology to me. So no monetary settlement and both of us went away satisfied after using the opportunity to rant (by him) and explain (by me).

    Job done.

    I'm not saying Mediation would work for you but don't discount it and don't refuse it on the DQ because that will make you look unreasonable in the eyes of the court.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


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    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Quote Originally Posted by Carm0512 View Post
    In 2012 I fell behind on my payments O2 due to difficult personal circumstances. I was temporarily cut off and had debt collectors contacting me for the payments. I contacted O2 and was advised that I had to pay £160 to the debt collectors which was the outstanding balance plus a reconnection fee - in order to be reconnected. I did this in the timescale given but due to a lack of communication between O2 and the debt collectors regarding receipt of my payment- I was not reconnected in time and was told that as a result I would have to pay the remaining line rental. I complained about this at the time to O2 but got nowhere and was continuously passed between them and the debt collector.
    Do those Debt Collectors still exist?

    If so it may be worth a try to get some information from them over the "lack of communication between O2 and the debt collectors" as evidence in support of your Defence.

    A WS from them would be nice but I doubt they'd play ball in case you ask them to pay any CCJ which could be argued they caused - but if you don't ask you don't get

    Have you kept any of the formal complaint paperwork?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Carm0512's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Yep they've just not responded at all they haven't even acknowledged receipt of the letter so I'm glad I sent it recorded delivery.

    Ill say I'm willing to have mediation so that the court doesn't think im obstructing anything - just wasn't sure if this was like an admission of ownership etc. I'll hold my ground that I don't owe the debt and see what they want to offer.

    and yes I've kept the response regarding the SARS request - I've also got an email from the iniial advisor I spoke to at O2 when I started requested old information. He replied saying he could only access up to June 2012 and that if i wanted further back I would have to complete a SARS. That's a lot further back than the two years that they claimed they have kept.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ah thanks so much. I was unsure if agreeing to mediation was a sort of admission of guilt but I'm happy to try it if it's not as I have nothing to lose. If we can't come to an agreement which I doubt we will - will it then automatically go to small claims hearing? Thanks so much

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ah good idea! I guess I don't know unless I try.

    I havent got any original paperwork as it was so long ago. I have a couple of emails from me complaining that I'd made the payment but still hadn't been reconnected and from them saying they were looking in to it but nothing else. Could kick myself as I usually keep everything but you don't expect to hear anything from them 5 years later I guess! :-)

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    Carm0512's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Hey guys

    So I agreed to mediation but it was deemed inappropriate as Lowell hadn’t provided me with the documents I’d requested. It’s now been given a court date and I have until Oct 16th to file anything I wish to use in support of my case. I’m just after some advice on what to do now really? I plan to file a copy of the letter I sent to Lowell requesting the particulars of claim that they just ignored as well as the response from O2 regarding my SARS request (basically saying they only keep info for two years so can’t help). I also have an email receipt of my original £160 payment to the debt collectors when this all began that should have been enough to reconnect me as it was original payment and reconnection fee. I also have my complaint emails to O2 at the time.

    is there anything else I could do or include?

    thanks

  12. #12
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    You will need to write a witness statement to file with your evidence which basically spells out exactly the circumstances that lead to this point.

    So .......

    On xxxxxxxxxxxxx 2010 I entered into an agreement with xx for provision of xxxxxxxxxxx

    In or around xxxxxxxxxxx 2012 I found myself in temporary financial difficulty

    On xxxxxxxxx I contacted O2 to bring my account up to date

    O2 advised me to pay £160 to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Debt Collection company which totalled the outstanding balance plus a reconnection fee - in order to be reconnected.

    The amount of £160 was paid to xxxxxxxxxxxx on xxxxxxxxxx 2012 ( EXHIBIT B )

    On xxxxxxxxxxxxx O2 informed me my payment had been made too late and they would not reconnect the service and I was liable to pay the remaining line rental.

    etc etc....

    Then you should put stuff about the actual claim and how the claimant hasn't provided a breakdown of the sum claimed, copies of the contract, notice of assignment and so on.

    Just as a starting point put everything in then we can break it down from there if need be.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Thankyou so much! I’ll get cracking with that today. I’ve been reading over some similar cases on here and someone offered Lowell a token payment of £100 to drop the court claim etc? Do you think this would be worth a shot as I’m due to have a baby in the next few weeks and would ideally rather avoid a court situation. The only thing sparing me on is the fact they’ve sent none of the documents I requested and therefore may not have them?

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    £100 ? would be a bit of a bargain, they might have paid about that for it though. More realistically it would be a f&f of 50% of the debt for them to drop it, if that's what you wanted to do.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    Carm0512's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Hey! So I have received a letter from Lowell today detailing their evidence basically. I wrote to them back in June requesting a copy of their particulars of claim so the original agreement, assignment, default notice and formal demand - they completely ignored this request and have again failed to include any of these documents in the correspondence I’ve received today. They say that the original agreement is not exhibited because:

    a) a copy was provided to the defendant at the outset;
    b) there is no legislation requiring O2 to keep a copy of the original;
    c) the Defendant has not denied the existence of the Agreement in his defence and
    d) the Claimant does not have access to a copy.

    They have merely included

    1) a generic copy of terms and conditions from O2

    2) a copy of a spreadsheet detailing payments from 15/08/2010 - 13/09/2012 (this doesn’t even have my name or account number on) the last transaction on which is a “write off-manual” credit payment that actually brings my balance to £0.00.

    3) an invoice detailing a closing balance of £1178.34 - this has no breakdown of how that amount has been calculated and again contains none of my personal details.

    4) a copy of a letter from O2 stating that they were transferring the debt to Lowell. The letter says I owe an amount of £1178.34 and says details of what that amount is for is included on the other side - However Lowell have not provided me with a copy of that side of the document. It also states that I should have a letter from Lowell called a notice of assignment.

    5) a letter from Lowell saying they have purchased the debt. Nowhere on this letter does it say it is a notice of assignment.

    6) a letter from lowell to myself chasing the debt

    7) a “letter of claim” from Lowell threatening county court action.

    Are these documents enough evidence for a court to uphold their action against me or are they obliged to provide copies of the particulars of claim that I have requested from them in particular the original agreeement. There’s literally no breakdown or calculation of where their amount has come from? They don’t even have details of how long was left on my O2 agreement for me to calculate myself how much line rental would have been owed if I agree I owed it?

    Just after som advice on my next steps because I have to file my witness statement with court an Lowell by Monday!

    Thanks
    Last edited by Carm0512; 12th October 2017 at 20:47:PM.

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Were these documents provided to you as exhibits to their witness statement or have they arrived as a reply toyour letter requesting information?

    The spreadsheet detailing payments - does that have a balance figure on or is it literally just a list of payments ?

    Doesn't seem much like they have evidenced the amount they are claiming is due and owing - I'd carry on with your witness statement from what I posted at #12 and incorporate the documents provided and the issues with them making the case that documents are generic and in no way evidence the claim, only that an account may have existed with O2. I'd also include O2's failure to provide documents under your SAR ( and separately make a complaint to the ICO as I don't believe they only hold info for 2 years - pretty sure they are meant to keep more for tax purposes?) to show you have tried to find out hwo the heck this amount has been made up.

    Have a go and post it up and we can give you a hand refining/expanding if needed.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    @Amethyst

    Although Telefonica keep some records on file (mainly financials), they do not keep records of account notes, customer queries & the like much beyond 2 years. (Confirmed to me via Telefonica Data Protection dept.)

    Good morning btw
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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    I'd still use that failing in the witness statement as it has rendered the claimant unable to evidence that the amount claimed is actually owing
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    The documents were provided as exhibits to their witness statement - they still havent even acknowledged my original request for the information.

    The spreadsheet detailing payments has a balance figure that stands as £0.00 - so I am really puzzled. I will try to upload a picture of the document to see if you can make any more sense of it.

    Thankyou

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    The £0 on the balance is where the original creditor sells on the debt to the DCA.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512


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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Okay I have had a go at my defence - let me know if theres anything that needs changing/removing etc. ANY advice is so appreciated!!!! Thankyou





    • In 2010 I entered into an agreement with Telefonica UK Limited (“O2”) for provision of a pay monthly mobile phone. I do not have the specific details of this agreement, including the start or end date of the original agreement as the account was taken out so long ago. I have contacted O2 with a SARS request for any information on my account including any account notes or online chat transcripts and they have replied saying they no longer have any of the relevant records and cannot help me further. A copy of their response is exhibited at ( EXHIBIT A ).
    • In or around November 2011 I found myself in temporary financial difficulty and in January 2012 my account was temporarily suspended. I remained in contact with O2 throughout this period - and explained my circumstances. I had finished one job and was awaiting a start date on another. O2 seemed understanding to this fact and although my account was frozen, I was assured that due to my communication with them, that this was temporary until I could bring my account up to date. I was assured by staff after each phone call/online chat that my account notes would be updated to document my communication and the current agreement between myself and O2. As stated in point 1 - O2 cannot now provide copies of these account notes.
    • Once back in employment I again contacted O2 and I was advised by several members of staff that I had to pay £160 to Moorcroft Debt Collection Company which totalled the outstanding balance plus a reconnection fee - in order to bring my account up to date and be reconnected.
    • The amount of £166 was paid to Moorcroft on 15th May 2012. An email receipt was sent a couple of days later. ( EXHIBIT B )
    • Once payment was made I contacted O2 and was told my line would be reactivated within 2 hours but the process could take up to 24 hours in total.
    • When 24 hours had passed and my line was still not active - I contacted O2 for advice and contradictory to the phone call I had the previous day, was informed that they had not received any payment from the debt collection agency and that I needed to contact Moorcroft directly.
    • After being passed between the two and gaining no further clarification, I emailed the O2 complaint service for advice and to file a complaint. ( EXHIBIT C )
    • Within the coming weeks O2 eventually informed me that my payment had been made too late and they would not reconnect the service and I was liable to pay the remaining line rental. This had not been communicated to me at all - or even mentioned as a possible outcome, until this point and it was for that reason that I disputed the debt with O2. Although I had fell behind on payments I had made every effort to remain in contact with them and keep them notified of changes - bringing my account back up to date at the first possible opportunity.
    • Despite several attempts of resolving this situation with O2, I received no assistance from them and in October 2012 I received a letter from them to say they had transferred the debt to Lowell Portfolio. I have not had any communication with O2 since as whenever I tried they directed me back to Lowell.
    • When the debt was originally passed to Lowell, I contacted them to explain that I had disputed this debt with O2 and the reasons why. I was told by their staff that they could not discuss this dispute with me as they did not have the relevant details and they just sought to set up a payment plan. It is for this reason that I had no further contact with Lowell.
    • Upon receipt of the county court claim form I contacted Lowell to request copies of the particulars of claim ( to help me establish where this amount has come from and how it has been calculated. ( EXHIBIT D ) This was sent by recorded delivery (EXHIBIT E ) with the relevant payment on 18th July 2017 but no response was sent by the claimant. The claimant has then gone on to refer to the original agreement within their witness statement but has still failed to supply these documents despite my entitlement to inspect them. Without the original agreement or contract the claimant is unable to evidence that or why the amount claimed is actually due or owing.
    • The claimant has provided generic documents as exhibits to their witness statement that in no way evidence the claim nor the amount due, only that an account with O2 existed. None of the documentation provided break down the amount they are claiming nor do they explain how it has been calculated. ( EXHIBIT AK2, AK3, AK4 )
    • The claimant states that the account with O2 commenced on 14th March 2009. O2 contracts are usually for a period of 24 months so I cannot understand how in January 2012 - almost 36 months later, they are claiming I still have a remaining line rental of over £1000.



    STATEMENT OF TRUTH


    The defendant believes that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.


    I am duly authorised to sign this witness statement as I am the defendant.


    Dated this 15th day of October, 2017.






    Signed............................................ .................

  23. #23
    Carm0512's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Just to update ! I received a letter from Lowell today informing me that they are discontinuing their claim! So happy. Thankyou all so much for your help as I wouldn’t have been able to challenge this without you all!

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    well done give the court a ring in a weeks time to check they got discontinuance notice

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    Default Re: Lowell Portfolio vs Carm0512

    Good news!

    I'll give @Kati a nudge to update your thread.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

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    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

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