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Thread: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

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  1. #1
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Hi guys,

    Long story so I'll keep it as brief & easy to understand as I can!

    History: Mum & her partner were together for 35 years - March this year, he died, leaving Mum in her house (privately rented) on her own.

    My wife & I used to go to her house (local to us) 2 or 3 times a day, did personal care & cooked all the food/did all the washing etc. etc.

    We also had carers going in twice a day, lunchtime & bedtime, just to make sure she was okay.

    Mum is self funding, so I paid the invoice from the carers as soon as it arrived (I have Power of Attorney for Health & Finance).

    My Mum is NOT very mobile at all & has very early stages of vascular dementia, and the powers that be thought she was unsafe in her own home, mostly due to the stairs in the house.

    A couple of weeks ago, a carer arrived at her house to find her quite happily sitting on a cushion on the floor in her lounge. Mum couldn't get up properly so the carer escalated it to her office who phoned me & said that mum needed to go to a care home for short respite.

    I agreed until I went to the home the day after she had arrived there & discovered that it was for severe dementia, not what my mum had. I did not want her to stay there as she was surrounded by motionless people who wailed & moaned all day long, so my wife & I searched for another home that was a) closer to us and b) more suitable for mum.

    We found a home who assessed her & we sorted out the arrive date etc.

    Now comes the bit I really need to know about .....

    The "awful" care home have sent me an invoice for 1 week plus 5 days (£1285) - my mum only stayed there for 7 days (£750).

    I am willing to pay the £750 as she was there for a week. It was all arranged (by the local council) so quickly, there was no contract, I signed nothing.

    Should I send them a cheque for £750 (for the week she was there) and include a letter to say that if they want the extra £535 when my mum was not even there, they should sort it out with the council, not us?


    Any advice on this will be gratefully received.

    Like I said, I have no issues paying for the time that she was there, but why should I pay extra for a time she wasn't there?

    Cheers & thanks

    Ian

  2. #2
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Anybody?

  3. #3
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Hi there,

    Sorry to hear that a difficult time is being made more stressful by this. Have you spoken with the Council or Care Home since receiving this invoice ?
    I think I'd ask the question about it rather than just pay the £750 and then query the rest, it could be an error, so I think I'd get an explanation for the time they have invoiced you for when your mum stayed for 7 days before doing anything else. There should be some form of terms, and rates?, for the care home which the council agreed to as they placed your mum there. Did they discuss cost or anything with you at the time they were making the decision?

    @enaid might be able to give a bit more help xx
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  4. #4
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Hi Amethyst & thanks for replying,

    It was basically the local council who suggested the care home to me & I said "yes". It was for a "short term respite" of a week or so, no definite time requested or offered. I knew it was £750 per week - not a problem.

    She was there exactly 7 days, so I think paying £750 is correct, but I'm not willing to pay for an extra 5 days after she's already gone!

  5. #5
    enaid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Sadly some care homes charge for a period after the person has left the home, they put it in the T&Cs as time for relatives to collect belongings etc or to cover time to fill the room.
    There is an article HERE and although this is about people who have passed away the rules may still remain the same and will be applied.


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    https://www.carersuk.org/

  6. #6
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Quote Originally Posted by enaid View Post
    Sadly some care homes charge for a period after the person has left the home, they put it in the T&Cs as time for relatives to collect belongings etc or to cover time to fill the room.
    There is an article HERE and although this is about people who have passed away the rules may still remain the same and will be applied.
    I find that repugnant. How is someone supposed to give prior notice of their death-day?

    We've dealt with a case recently where the council issued a county court claim to recover care home fees from the deceased's son who was the sole beneficiary of their Will.

    Fortunately they didn't get their math's right from the beginning so hopefully a refund may be due and not the other way round

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  7. #7
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    enaid - thanks for your reply.

    There were no T&Cs that I was made aware of - I didn't sign anything (apart from permission for them to take photos of her).

    I think I will send the home a cheque for the 7 days £750 and include a letter saying that if there is an issue with the other £535, they ought to contact the local Council .... or am I way off the mark there?

    Thanks
    Ian

  8. #8
    enaid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    You should speak to the social worker who arranged the respite as you should have been informed of the costs etc before your mum was admitted. The invoice should state exactly what you are expected to pay for including correct dates etc.
    Are you happy with the NEEDS and FINANCE assessments your mum has had? You should have copies of both


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    https://www.carersuk.org/

  9. #9
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    enaid - from 1st care home to the one she is in now, I have had nothing in writing apart from the place she is in now.

    The first two were "word of mouth" and verbal agreement - nothing in writing apart from 1) permission to take photos of her and b) the excessive invoice from the 2nd home!

  10. #10
    enaid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    So this is the 3rd Home in as many weeks?
    There is something so wrong imho with all of this. If respite was the initial reason for your mum going in a home then you should (being self funding) be made aware of the cost.
    Were you given a time frame for the respite?
    Did you get an invoice from the first home?
    Did the second home invoice make it clear what the excessive charge was for, it should be clearly detailed.


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    https://www.carersuk.org/

  11. #11
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    enaid ....
    Yes - 3rd home in 3rd week - this one will be longer term/permanent.
    The respite time frame was 1 or 2 weeks (maybe).
    The first home was "funded" by the local council - they said she couldn't stay there more than a week or two because the council couldn't afford it - no costs given, as it was "free" - they then suggested other care homes for respite (again short term) and I chose one that was fairly close by.
    The Invoice from the 2nd home says ....

    1 Weekly rate invoice period 04/08/17 - 10/08/17 = £750.00 (no problem - she was there)

    then

    5 Daily rate Invoice period 11/08/17 - 15/08/17 = £535.70 (she was not there)

  12. #12
    PAWS's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Am I getting this right -care homes charging for people no longer actually in their care!
    That is bloody disgraceful. They cannot justify it by saying they are giving relatives time to move their stuff -Jesus, even Pickfords wouldn’t charge that much for storing /moving the personal belongings that would fit in a single room! Right…. time to see my MP again.

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  13. #13
    enaid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Ok get the picture now, well I would send cheque for £750 stating payment for actual stay, put the ball in their court re the extra 5 days see if they respond and what with.

    I really hope the 3rd home is ok and your mum will be alright and looked after well.
    If it is going to be permanent their will be a contract between the home and your mum.
    Some info about the contract.

    It is vital that you ensure that you understand what you are signing and that the contract clearly lays out your expectations as well as those of the care home.

    All residents should have a written agreement before moving into the home. If your place has been arranged and funded by the local authority, you should still be given a copy of the contract or terms and conditions.

    The contract will essentially set out the terms and conditions of the care home. This should include notification of any rules/regulations, information about what happens if your care needs change, what happens if you go to hospital for any length of time and how long fees remain payable after a resident has passed away.

    The contract should also show in clear terms what the fees are, when they are due and what they cover. Make sure you check which services and items are not included in the fees - will you need to pay extra for dental services or visits by the hairdresser? Who will pay for staff to accompany you on hospital or optician appointments?
    The contract should also show in clear terms what the fees are, when they are due and what they cover. Make sure you check which services and items are not included in the fees - will you need to pay extra for dental services or visits by the hairdresser? Who will pay for staff to accompany you on hospital or optician appointments?

    The contract should also show the terms concerning deposits and refunds. Deposits should be returnable at the end of a contract if the contract has not been broken. Equally, if the care home has breached a term of the contract, a refund of fees should be paid to the resident.

    Make sure that the contract does not have a clause excluding the care home from liability in cases where they have failed in their care and diligence of the resident or the resident's possessions.

    A relative of someone with Power of Attorney can sign but they must be very clear about their role. Make sure that they will not be personally liable for the fees, unless that is the arrangement

    Wishing you all the best xx


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    https://www.carersuk.org/

  14. #14
    CaptainChaos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mum just gone into Care Home ... Advice needed please

    Thank you enaid - I am so much happier with her new home - lots of space, lots of windows & residents who actually TALK to each other, and great carers with some great banter - once she gets used to it, hopefully she'll come out of her shell a bit.

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