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Taken to court without my knowledge?

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  • Taken to court without my knowledge?

    Hello, I'm new to this forum and apologize if this is in the wrong category or if I don't structure this properly.

    Basically on the 7th of December I was woken to a knock on my door by a very polite man from Rossendales. He informed me that he was attending my home to collect £866.50 in unpaid Council Tax.
    I responded by informing him that I had no knowledge of this, that I had lived in the property in question but for not even 2 months, after which disputes with my landlord (they kept letting people into my property without my presence, consent or knowledge, only informing me after the fact) I left, feeling that I was not safe there. Large sums of money had gone missing, and apparently an electrician had visited my property 3 times which they "had to let in", although the only electric fault there was with the property remained unrepaired. But this is another story.

    According to the debt collector (who I have to admit WAS very polite), the council had been informed that i'd lived there for approximately 6 months, they subsequently took me to court and obtained a liability order which was passed on to Rossendales. He said he was more than happy to put my account on hold for 2 weeks while I get in contact with the council, the courts, and Rossendales to find out what was going on.

    During the week after the debt collectors visit I received 3 letters from Rossendales, dated the 4th, 14th, and 24th of November 2016 (keep in mind I was receiving these in December) claiming an original amount of £556.50, and £75.00 "enforcement costs". I know for a fact that council tax for the year in these properties is roughly £950 as my dad lives on the same site.

    To cut a long story short I called the council who said my 2 choices were either pay the debt or attempt to get Rossendales to return the liability order to the council who will then allow me to dispute it, following which I called Rossendales and asked them to do this but they became very rude and aggressive, laughing at me when I verbally removed their implied right of access and informed them that any further contact from them would constitute harassment (as I had told them I DO NOT owe the council any money, let alone the implied £866.50. It might be worth noting that they couldn't give me any details regarding the liability order for reasons which they refused to explain. I then called the courts, where the lady I spoke to mentioned (in hushed tones) the borderline-illegal practice of these court hearings, where the Council decide who is liable and who isn't, then rent out a court room and hire staff to fill it for the day and then process all claims and deny any disputes for validity. SHE claimed that she had often, during her time of employment, received phone calls from individuals in a similar position who had never even been notified that they were being taken to court! Unfortunately she did not know how to force Rossendales to return the liability order to the council, but the interesting part is that her system (the court's database) had NO record of a liability order ever being granted against me! This I find very strange.

    So, I know I have the RIGHT to confront my accuser directly. I would like to know if anybody has any advice pertaining to how I go about forcing Rossendales to returning the liability order to the council.

    Also, I know that a debt collectors actions DO constitute harassment if I claim that I do not owe the "creditor" (in this case the Council) any money and they continue to attempt to enforce it without proving validity. Does anyone know which law this is expressed by?

    Note: This was getting really long so I have had to cut a lot of information out, if you need any more information please feel free to ask. Also I would like to thank you in advance, and will appreciate any and all help that you can provide on this matter.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Taken to court without my knowledge?

    Not sure where you have received your info from but it is wrong.

    To get to this stage there should have been a lot of letters sent. You need some information from the Council:
    1 - what letters have been sent & when
    2 - what address including postcode have they all been sent to
    3 - how many Liability Orders they have
    4 - how much each one is for
    5 - the dates each one covers
    6 - how much is still outstanding

    It is not a debt collector you are dealing with, Rossendales will be acting as Bailiffs in this instance. Before attending they should have sent a Letter outlining how much you owe - including £75 costs, inviting you to pay in full or by agreeable instalments, or giving you a date whereby you should contact them. If you did not respond or make contact then a Bailiff will visit - and add £235 in costs. If eventually they are getting nowhere then they will return your account to the Council.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Taken to court without my knowledge?

      to LB [MENTION=97464]dwallis[/MENTION] ... I'll tag [MENTION=30402]Milo[/MENTION] [MENTION=26498]ploddertom[/MENTION] and [MENTION=9189]bizzybob[/MENTION] for you ... any more info you can give in the meantime would be great :nod: xx
      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

      recte agens confido

      ~~~~~

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      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

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      • #4
        Re: Taken to court without my knowledge?

        I also meant to add that the debt always belongs to the Council.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Taken to court without my knowledge?

          First I had heard about it was when the bailiff first visited (December 2016), HE introduced himself as a debt collector, not a bailiff.

          The week AFTER he visited was when I received 3 letters basically to the effect of what you mentioned, outlining the amount I owe + £75.00 costs. However these were dated on the 4th, 14th, and 24th of November. They are all addressed to my fathers address, I don't currently have fixed residence but since I stay here quite often he pays council tax on my behalf (bless him) which is, i presume, why they think I live there. I have made them aware of this but they don't listen. I cannot talk to Rossendales as they just get rude and aggressive every time I ask questions or tell them I don't currently have a fixed address.

          I haven't paid anything and I don't intend to pay anything until such time as I have been given a chance to A- Correct the dates they think I lived in the property (since Aug 2014-Feb 2015 is DEFINITELY a lot more than the >2 months that I actually lived there), and B- explain why I think I should not be liable.

          The information I have obtained so far is direct from Council, Rossendales, and local Magistrates Court, so if it's wrong then that's on them and how am I supposed to know any differently?

          See I thought that in order for a liability order to be obtained you HAD to be taken to court, and that it's a criminal offence to not pay council tax. The council bundle a bunch of cases together and prosecute all as one in an attempt to save money. How can they do this unless they know for sure that every one of the cases has at least a certain level of liability. Furthermore if you are taken to court you DO have the right to be there, it's fundamental and stated outright in the UDHR.

          Article 11 s(1): Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

          I wasn't given ANY guarantees necessary to my defence, being that I wasn't even made aware that there was a hearing. Furthermore my former dodgy-landlord's word is not proof, it's heresay. So if this is all they had then they just presumed my guilt and prosecuted accordingly.

          The only information I was able to obtain from the council are as follows:

          1 Liability order, for the amount of £556.50.
          Date liability order was granted: 6th July 2016.
          Proof: Informed by 'site manager'.

          That's it, they "cannot" give me any more information other than the summons number. I asked them if I can open a dispute or appeal because the information that they were acting on is incorrect and they say "we can't as it's being handled by the debt collectors". It shouldn't be with the debt collectors, like I told them and you guys I was never made aware of any court hearing. Rossendales aren't helpful, the lady at the Magistrates Court was helpful, she pointed out that I could make a "statutory declaration" but I would have to pay a solicitor anywhere from £140 for this. I can't afford that I'm on ESA!

          Comment

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