Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

[j4mes]

Bit of a long winded one his but here goes.

1st July this year I bought a 59plate Mini JCW 208 on finance. Total price was £7499 with £107 deposit by credit card and he remaining £7392 in finance through a 'Manchester based broker'.

I had the car 2 weeks and found it had a hesitation issue as the turbo wound up. Booked into local Mini dealer on 29th July and they found it needed multiple things done totalling £2400+ (maf, o2 sensor, engine needed a decoke, breather system steam clean, new cam cover, 2 tyres, rear brakes and an oil seal). Complained to finance broker and finance company who let broker take the lead in the resolution. They contacted the vendor and eventually, 5 weeks later (!) I was informed the car was repaired and ready for collection by the broker. Upon asking the vendor what work was completed, I was informed they did a cam cover gasket and a tyre. I queried the rest as this model Mini is bad for needing decoking as it's direct injection. The vendor informed me they've never heard of one needing a decoke and it wasn't done. At this time, I expressed my doubts by email to the finance company and broker as to the degree of repair and that I didn't feel it would have been repaired correctly. I was instructed to pick the car up as the vendor insisted it was fixed.

So I travel the 250miles to collect the car and return home. A few days later and the issue remains. I again complain to the broker and the original complaint is extended as symptoms were identical. A short time later, the car is taken to a local Mini specialist and they supply a written quote that the car needs decoking. This is forwarded by scanned email to broker who speak to the vendor again. They insist the car is fine and that I'm basically making it up. So I ask about rejecting the car and the finance broker arranges and pays for an independent inspection done on the car. This was nearly 2 weeks ago now and I'm still awaiting any response from this inspection by my broker. However, the engineer did agree the car wasn't right to me and that if 2 independent to each other garages stated it needed a decoke, then clearly it needed doing.

I am calling the finance broker tomorrow to formally reject the car but wanted to know my rights as what I want is:

* a speedy resolution to the rejection so I can buy a different car on finance without 2 agreements on the go that I couldn't afford. And I need transport for work.

* a FULL refund of all payments made and deposit due to the fact that I found the issue so soon, it is the same issue verified by 2 garages and an engineer, and the vendor has had a chance to fix the car which wasnt done correctly. Because of this, I do not feel any fair use deduction should be levied as I've maintained all along its not right and raised concerns when it was returned to me although I've done around 4000miles in total.

Am I being fair and how long should the rejection take? If 2 weeks, I'm happy to pay £50 a week for a cheapo rental car. Any more and I'd be buying a cheap runabout both of which are additional cost to me.


The decoking issue is all over google if you check Mini R56 N14 decoke

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Anyone?

sent a formal rejection email today as follows-

XXXXXX is the garage I bought from, AAAAAA is my finance company and YYYYYY is the vehicle inspectors. Obviously names removed.

Dear Sir/Madam,


I recently bought a car through your company on 1st July 2016. The car is a Mini John Cooper Works with registration XXXXXXX. A significant fault with the vehicle has been apparent since 14th July 2016. I am dissatisfied with the product I have bought from you and as such I would like to reject this car.


The faults with the car have been diagnosed by a local Mini main dealers on 29th July as requiring:


Maf, o2 sensor, decoke, cam cover replacement, engine steam clean, 2 tyres, strut top mounts and driveshaft oil seal. A total quote of just over £2513.


The car was returned to the Vendor, XXXXXX for them to complete repairs on 17th August having sat at Mini since the inspection on 29th July. The vehicle was with Auto Vogue for a period of around 2 weeks until the 5th of September 2016. XXXXXX confirmed the work they completed was a tyre, rocker cover gasket and an oil seal. Upon receiving this update, I voiced my concerns to AAAAAA if these repairs would have even rectified the issue and I enclosed website links as further evidence that a decoke was necessary. These concerns were noted but ultimately I was still advised to collect the vehicle by AAAAAA on 8th September 2016, and collected it on the 13th September from the vendor.


After sending 3 emails, I finally received a response on 29th September 2016 from AAAAAA following further issues that were the same symptoms as the first. The complaint was continued through. On the 30th September 2016, a decision was made by AAAAAA to arrange an Engineer to inspect the vehicle however I had already booked the car into another local Mini Specialist for diagnosis. On 7th October 2016, the vehicle was inspected by the Specialist and diagnosed again as needing an engine decoke. This was notified to AAAAAA and the estimate supplied by email. On 8th October 2016 I received a reply that this had been passed to the vendor XXXXXX and that they disputed the quotation and denied any faults were present. AAAAAA arranged for an engineer from YYYYYY to inspect the vehicle and this was done on 28th October 2016 which was the earliest available appointment where I had suitable time available. While I have asked about this report and had no confirmation of its contents, he did state at the time that if 2 independent to each other reputable garages had stated it needed a decoke, then it needed a decoke. He also noted on the test drive that a hesitation was present and large amounts of soot or oil were present in the exhaust tailpipes. To date the vehicle has used 4.5litres of oil since its return to me around 3000miles ago.


I believe I have given ample opportunity to correct the faults with the vehicle, but with no satisfactory conclusion, I am therefore rejecting this car.


I refer you to the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which details that the car I bought from you must be of satisfactory quality. From my own judgement and that of the independent experts, I believe that the car is not of a satisfactory quality. As the ongoing fault presented and was diagnosed within the initial 30day period, and I raised doubts on the initial repair before collection from Auto Vogue, I feel a full refund should still apply.


I request that you pay me the full amount for my car which totals £7500 and return to me all premiums paid in the finance agreement, and deposit paid directly to the dealer of £107. I also ask that no further payments are requested so I am able to source and afford an alternative vehicle.


I expect to hear from you to confirm you have received this letter so we can arrange a refund within the next two weeks. I have stopped driving the car in line with my rejection and I request that you collect it at the earliest opportunity as I will be cancelling the road tax and insurance after that 2 week period.


The vehicle is outside my property in a resident parking bay and available to collect whenever is convenient.


Yours Sincerely


[name]






Current mileage is displayed below

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Hi... sorry But I missed your initial post.
However you do seem to have covered all points.
Under the CRA 2015 you have the right to short term rejection.
Although not necessary, you allowed them an attempt to repair the vehicle after rejecting it.
This "stops the clock" until the vehicle is made satisfactory.
Vehicle still not satisfactory so short term rejection rights retained, and you are entitled to a full refund (including your deposit).
You might have to claim the deposit from the dealer as the finance co. will never have received it (but if that proves difficult there is always a claim against the credit card)

Good luck, aned please keep us updated.

PS if you cancel insurance and road fund be sure to change name of registered keeper

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Am I acting reasonably in rejecting and making these demands? And is email acceptable to send this to the finance company and broker?

ive been and hired a car for 2 weeks at my own cost so their car isn't being used and I've left the handbrake off but in gear so it doesn't stick on in the wet weather. Only issue I can foresee is the car may need a balljoint replaced soon but certainly nothing seriously wrong that I'm aware of.

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

IMO your actions are perfectly acceptable, and email is fine, but do send "read receipt".

If the car is parked on the public highway the hand brake must be applied.(Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 [regulation 108]

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Thanks des8. Will update as necessary. Also emailed citizens advice so I can quote anything they say directly.

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Update-

had a response from Citizens Advice and it very much ties in with what was said here. they said-

Your rights and obligations

I am advising you on the basis that you purchased the car for personal use and not business use. If this is incorrect then please respond to this email so we can alter the advice accordingly.

Your rights are against the finance company rather than the trader who supplied the goods. Your rights come under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, all goods supplied by a trader to a consumer must be of a ‘satisfactory quality’ – the goods should be free from faults, last a reasonable time, be fit for the purpose they were made for, and should not be unsafe. If the goods do not meet these requirements, then the trader has one opportunity to either repair or replace the goods. If this does not resolve the situation then you can claim a reduction to reflect the fault and keep the goods, or reject the goods for a full refund/partial refund taking into account usage.

As the fault has occurred within the first 30 days of you purchasing the car, you have the opportunity to reject the goods and request a full refund from the trader. If you wanted to do so the trader may ask you to prove that the fault is not due to neglect, misuse, accidental damage or fair wear & tear.

As you allowed the trader an opportunity to repair or replace the goods, this 30 day period in which you can reject is interrupted by a wait period. The wait period is the time it takes the trader to carry out the repair or provide the replacement and starts the day the repair has been agreed by both the consumer and the trader and ends once the goods have been repaired and returned to the consumer or a replacement has been supplied. After this wait period, the consumer will have the remainder of the 30 period for rejection or 7 days, whichever is longer if the repair\replacement hasn't been successful or another issue arises.

Any faults which occur within the first 6 months are assumed to have been present at the time of sale, and have only just become apparent. If the trader believes otherwise (for instance, if they believe you have caused the fault through misuse) they have the right to test the product to prove their case. If they cannot prove their case, you may seek a suitable form of redress as detailed above.

Any other costs you incur as a direct result of the breach of contract are known as ‘consequential losses’ and you may ask to be reimbursed for these costs. It is important that you take all reasonable steps to keep such costs to a minimum, and you may need to provide some evidence of what the losses are and why you believe the trader is responsible.

Your next steps

The finance company are a member of alternative dispute resolution scheme (ADR), called the Financial Ombudsman. The ADR scheme can be used as an alternative to taking a trader to court and they are in place to help with negotiations between yourself and the trader.
Firstly we would recommend that you follow the finance companies complaints process because the Financial Ombudsman can assist once the finance company have had 8 weeks to look into the issue or if they agree for them to look into it sooner.
If they dont have a complaints process then we would advise to take a more formal approach and address them in writing. We would suggest obtaining proof of sending the letter/email and keeping a copy of any contact – this may help you prove that you have contacted the trader and tried to resolve the matter amicably.

We would advise you outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear what you expect from the trader and why. It should also give the trader a reasonable time to resolve the matter.

A suitable template can be found here.

What we will do

Due to the potential safety issue, we would like to pass the information you have provided to Trading Standards for further consideration and any necessary action. So that we can do this please can you provide the trader’s address and postcode and the finance companies address and postcode – as there is no ‘central’ Trading Standards Authority, we need a postcode to determine which Trading Standards Authority we would pass the case to. You can provide this by either responding to this email or ringing the below number. The case details will also be placed on a central data base that can be accessed by all the other Trading Standards throughout the UK.

Although we work closely with Trading Standards, we are a separate organisation. As such, we pass complaints of this nature to Trading Standards for them to evaluate whether or not action can or should be taken. Individual complaints do not necessarily lead to immediate enforcement action as sometimes a number of complaints are needed to take effective action. The information is however valuable intelligence allowing Trading Standards to properly prioritize their activities. Trading Standards will only contact you if they need further information or feel they could be of further assistance.

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Well I've had no contact from the broker who was mainly handling the issue but the finance company themselves have just wrote back asking for any applicable evidence to investigate. I emailed this over and reminded them the deadline for the 2 weeks grace period expires on Monday coming. I will also have to extend my rental of a hire car at further cost to myself.

Anyone got any recommendations for my follow up correspondence informing them the car is uninsured, untaxed and I will be charging storage fees. Citizens Advice mentioned he Financial Ombudsman so I may get them involved after Monday too.

basically, advice on how to proceed please for Monday?

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Play hardball!!
Send them a "letter before Action" telling them they have 14 days in which to refund all your money.
Failure and you will initiate court proceedings without further reference
You are also going to claim damages ie refund of all your expenses including car hire costs as permitted by CRA 2015.
Copy in the dealer as well as he has your deposit!
Tell them exactly how much you are claiming ie all instalments, deposit. and the itemise your expenses.
Aim high and be prepared to negotiate downwards if necessary

You can always try FOS, but I personally have always found them a waste of space.
The advantages are there is no charge, & they should be quicker.

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Calculated with the rental car I collect Monday, the monthly payment due on 1st December and other associated costs so far I would need £1212 back. If I keep my insurance running, can I charge £5 a day storage as it is insured?

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Work on the basis that if you don't claim for it, you won't get it.
So if you are storing the car on your ground, claim for it @ £10 p.d. fro the date on which they should have collected it.)there's no certainty they will roll over and pay it, but it does give you bargaining room later!)
You rejected the vehicle, so from that date it is their responsibility and you would be classed as an involutary bailee from the last date on which they should have collected it
As an involuntary bailee your responsibility is limited to not deliberately or recklessly damaging or destroying the goods. So if you leave the vehicle on your drive you do not need to do anything else.
Regarding insurance, technically you no longer have an insurable interest as owner or hirer, so keeping the insurance in place is pointless, unless you advise the insurers of your change of interest in the vehicle and they agree to this!

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

The car is in a residential parking bay outside the property facing onto a back lane rather than a main road.
My only issue with the insurance, and it shouldn't effect the rejection, is that I was in an incident with a pedestrian with the car. Insurers are aware and the car had a new windscreen and I replaced the wing mirror myself so it is back to the standard it was before. However, the pedestrian has put an injury claim in against me even though the police deemed it not my fault (no further action was the official line). But that's another story.

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

In view of teadditional information you have provided, do not cancel the insurance.
With a claim outstanding it is not even worth considering cancelling as you will not be given any return of premium until the claim is settled, and then even if the civil
claim goes in your favour there might be no return premium.
Also as the vehicle is parked in a public place, even tho' it is no longer your vehicle, as the person who parked it up you could be held liable for any damage that may somehow be caused to third parties.

[j4mes]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

Thanks for the continued help des8. Appreciate it a lot as I've never been down this avenue before.

is there a template for the next stage, the letter before action? I will write it and post recorded to them and email it so they cannot deny receiving it. And will list my costs I wish to reclaim and again ask they remove "their vehicle" and terminate the contract that I believe they are in breach of.

***Edit***

found a template

Sample

Ann Other
66 Heron Street
Willowshire
WL4 8HH

The Big Shop
123 Green Lane
Redshire
RE1 1ER
28 November 2016
Letter before court claim
Dear Sir or Madam,
Re: faulty Own Brand Kettle, KS519
I have not received a reply to my letter dated 26 August 2015 regarding the faulty goods which I bought from you on 20 August 2015. This letter explained what is wrong with the goods and why I am entitled to a refund.
I am once again requesting a full refund of the purchase price of £85 on the grounds that the goods were not of satisfactory quality under the Sale of Goods Act. I enclose a copy of the proof of purchase.
I would like a reply as soon as possible so that I know you have received this letter. If you don't agree to the refund, could you please then send me a detailed response saying why you don't agree.
To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution to resolve this problem.
If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 30 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice. This may increase your liability for costs.
I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 4 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction.
I look forward to your acknowledgement.
Yours faithfully



Ann Other
Enc: copy of proof of purchase

[des8]

Re: Rejecting a car on finance as unfit for purpose

That template is a trifle out of date as it refers to a previous act!

LETTER BEFORE ACTION
Dear Sir

Ref: purchase of vehicle XXx reg no:
on dd/mm/yy
purchase price £xx

Following my earlier letters of dd/mm/yy & dd/mm/yy you will be aware that due to many problems with this vehicle which have not been rectified, I have execrcised my right to reject.
These problems started within two weeks of taking delivery of the vehicle
You have also been sent independent reports detailing the faults.
I therefore now require that within the next two weeks you refund me £xxx which is calculated as follows:
here list your costs


Further, you should arrange collection of the vehicle within the next 14 days.This claim is being made under the rights bestowed by the Consumer Rights Act 2015
If you fail to respond in a satisafactory manner I will initiate legal proceedings without further notice.

Yours etc etc

send signed for