(Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

[nzkg]

Hi there,


New member here! I’m looking for some advice under the Consumer Rights Act for (yet another) used car issue - but specifically in the after 30 days but before 6 months period of the CRA.


On 6 May 2016 I bought a 2007 Nissan Note SE with 103850 miles on the clock. One previous owner and full service history. It had an MOT dated 24 March 2016.


No faults or issues were mentioned by the dealer at the time of sale, though I did notice that there was an issue with the smoothness of braking and non-functioning A/C - which I mentioned and used as points of negotiation on the sale price thinking (perhaps naively!) that they could be an easy fix (new brake pads/rotors or A/C recharge).


After a few days with the car I noticed a clunking metal-on-metal noise when going over bumps, potholes or uneven roads. Not being aware of my rights at the time to reject the vehicle within the first 30 days, or understanding what the issue was, I asked my garage to look into the issue and the first thing they noticed was that one of the brake calliper holders was loose (hence the braking issue I observed during the test drive) - and this could be the cause or one of the contributing causes of the noise. This was repaired at my own cost. The issue persisted after I continued to drive the car and due to my own procrastination, as well as overseas trips, and needing the car for business use it’s only been this week that I’ve managed to get it back to my mechanic for diagnosis. Now a significant problem with the subframe and how it’s connected to the chassis has been identified and will likely cost at least £700 to repair. I’m obviously unhappy about this given the age, condition & mileage of the vehicle and my mechanic seems quite stunned to see something of this magnitude and doesn’t believe that it can be attributable to a normal wear & tear type issue.


I spoke to the dealer on the phone earlier today to mention the issue and see what they could do, and found them at first dismissive (it had an MOT, we did our own checks, therefore it didn’t have the fault when it was sold and it’s not our problem) until I mentioned the CRA and the rights in the first 6 months period regarding repair, replacement or refund. This seemed to move him into a position of being open to me taking the vehicle to the dealership for them to look at it. At the same time, he kept saying he was “confident” he could prove it wasn’t an issue/fault at the time of sale if I brought it in for inspection.


Can I please get some advice on next steps from here? Do I need to write a complaint letter outlining the above and what I would like to happen? I’ll admit I haven’t researched this part yet or any letter templates etc. I don’t feel like the dealer is going to bend over backwards to put this issue right - in fact I sense their reluctance to help, and a cocky attitude that they could prove me wrong.


Follow up Q, it seems quite clear that in the first 30 days it’s the dealer’s responsibility to collect the vehicle for repair/rejection - what about after that time frame and before the end of 6 months? The dealer is about 1.5 hours away, and there would be cost and time involved in getting the car there. If I am going down the route of demanding a repair is it their responsibility to pick up the car?


I paid £1995 for the car less a couple of hundred (can’t recall the exact amount) for part-exchanging my previous vehicle. It does have a 3 month warranty - but this may not cover the work required to fix the issue.


Given what I now know about my rights as a Consumer I’m kicking myself for not rejecting it in the 30 day time frame or getting it diagnosed earlier.

My question is, what is the process at this point if I would like the car repaired, or rejected if a repair is unable to fix the issue.


A couple of other things - I didn’t keep a record (or screenshot) of the sales advertisement or description of the vehicle which had been listed on Autotrader. I recall that it did not mention any issues or faults with the vehicle, nor were any mentioned upfront when I went to the dealership, viewed and test drove the car. I do have photos of the subframe and problem area now.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post and for any help you can offer,

Kim

[des8]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Hi and welcome



The goods have to be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.
Presumably your garage will support your contention that the vehicle was faulty.
As you know your short term right to reject has passed,
You therefore have the right to repair or replacement but the trader must—

(a)

do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer, and

(b)

bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

If he fails you then have the final right to reject

[nzkg]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Hi des8,

Thanks for the quick response.

Just to flesh this out a little bit... would you recommend I contact the trader in writing about this giving them the opportunity and asking them to repair the car? Will it be more sensible to arrange the repair in writing rather than verbally or over the phone?

And do they have an obligation to arrange collection of the vehicle under the CRA or is it up to me to deliver the vehicle to them for inspection?

Lastly, what happens if they contest the fault?

Thanks again,

Kim

[ostell]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

I believe that during the first 6 months they have to prove that it was NOT faulty, the assumption is that it was faulty. A report by your garage would hold you in good stead.

[des8]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Hi des8,

Thanks for the quick response.

Just to flesh this out a little bit... would you recommend I contact the trader in writing about this giving them the opportunity and asking them to repair the car? Will it be more sensible to arrange the repair in writing rather than verbally or over the phone?

And do they have an obligation to arrange collection of the vehicle under the CRA or is it up to me to deliver the vehicle to them for inspection?

Lastly, what happens if they contest the fault?

Thanks again,

Kim

I'm a great believer in having written records.. pen & ink or email.
I would write, setting out briefly what has happened, and what you want them to do (referencing CRA 2015)

Delivery to them for repair is at their cost, whether you take it or they collect.

If they deny the fault you advise them that asthey have refused to repair you are exercising your final right to reject, (and if necessary you initiate court proceedings!)

[nzkg]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Hey all,

Appreciate your help and responses.

I have just drafted the following letter. Does it look OK? I've asked for the costs of delivery and return of the vehicle for repair to be covered - does that sound ok? Also have I said too much about the Consumer Rights Act - that bit about rejecting the vehicle if unwilling or unable to repair the vehicle? Thanks so much!


Dear Such and such,

Ref: Complaint about [reg. no.]

On xxxx I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle, a Nissan Note SE from you. On 28 July 2016 I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: the near-side subframe hanger has significant play at the point where it attaches to the chassis and has damaged (by tearing) this area of the chassis as a result.

On 28 July 2016, I called you to let you know about this fault over the phone and that I would be writing a letter of complaint.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly unroadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract. In accordance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 you have one opportunity to repair the vehicle within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to myself. You will be required to bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so – and this would include the costs of delivery of the vehicle for repair and return of the repaired vehicle to me.

If you are unable or unwilling to repair the vehicle as above, I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to receive a refund up to the full purchase price of the vehicle of £xx. This amount includes the price I paid and the value of the vehicle I part-exchanged at the time of purchase of the Nissan Note.

I look forward to receiving your written response within 14 days. If I do not hear from you in this time I may be required to initiate legal proceedings for recovery of the money without further reference to you.


Yours faithfully,



Me

[des8]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Amended your letter slightly.
Note that as the 30 days has expired a deduction may be made for the use you have had of the vehicle..
Dear Such and such,

Ref: Complaint about [reg. no.]

On xxxx I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle, a Nissan Note SE from you. On 28 July 2016 I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: the near-side subframe hanger has significant play at the point where it attaches to the chassis and has damaged (by tearing) this area of the chassis as a result.
The wear evidenced by the play must have been present when I purchased the vehicle

On 28 July 2016, I called you to let you know about this fault over the phone and that I would be writing a letter of complaint.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not of satisfactory quality, nor fit for purpose.

In accordance with my rights bestowed by The Consumer Rights Act 2015 I require you to repair the vehicle within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to myself.I would remind you that you are required to bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so – and this includes the costs of collection and return of the repaired vehicle to me.

If you are unable or unwilling to repair the vehicle as above, I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to receive a refund.

I look forward to receiving your written response within 14 days. If I do not hear from you in this time I may be required to initiate legal proceedings for recovery of the money without further reference to you.


Yours faithfully,



Me[/QUOTE]

[nzkg]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Thank you des8 for your suggestions and amendments to the letter. I have taken those into consideration and the letter is now in the post.

I gave the dealer a courtesy call to let them know that a letter of complaint was in the post, left a VM and they called back later and seemed very displeased:
- I explained that I had made a complaint by letter and what I wanted done was also in the letter
- They said that by writing a letter I was being "combative" and showing I wasn't willing to "work with them". The dealer said that he might read the letter, but runs a busy company and wouldn't respond by writing back. If I didn't want to do all correspondence over the phone then I wouldn't be hearing from them and they would see me in court!
- I tried explaining that the letter was just the first stage of a complaints process, that I had been advised to make a complaint in writing, to receive a response in writing so that both parties had a record of correspondence and that I was just trying to do my best to follow the Consumer Rights Act. I also said that if they were willing to repair the vehicle then our correspondence would probably involve using the phone to make arrangements but that it would be in our best interests as consumer & trader to have written correspondence as well.
- they responded by saying that if I didn't want to make arrangements over the phone in the first instance then I wouldn't be hearing back from them - at that point the dealer hung up!

I'm a bit astonished by this conversation! Why has a letter of complaint in the post got them so freaked out & upset? It only puts what I told them on the phone into written form!

They did seem to express a willingness to look at the car, not necessarily to repair it - but to do their own inspection although they said again (as with my first phone conversation yesterday) that they were confident that the fault wasn't present at the time of sale and they could prove that from MOT etc etc - but this would have to be done without letters back & forth or in writing.

Have I done the right thing? Surely a letter of complaint is not going too far and is just part of the complaints process and my right under the CRA? What happens next if they are true to their word and I don't hear back from them in writing in the next 14 days?

Thanks again for your thoughts and help,

K

[des8]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

The fact that they have indicated they do not want a written record shouts to me that they are dodgy!
If there is no written record any dispute becomes a "you said" "they said" etc, which is unsatisfactory to both,unless the party wishes to obfuscate.

Your own mechanic is presumably willing to write (if necessary) a statement outlining what he found.
You have photographs of the damaged area.

If you hear nothing your next letter is a "letter before action", following which you will be able to initiate court action.
Hopefully they will see sense before that becomes necessary.
Is the dealer a company, or just a sole trader? Would you care to name them?

[nzkg]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

Thanks for getting back to me des8.

I had a pleasant sales experience when I bought the car, and they didn't appear dodgy in the slightest. I just wonder whether the talk of letters and Consumer Rights Act might be new ground for the dealer and very formal sounding! But as you say, without it, it would just be a "you said" "they said" dispute.

Thanks for outlining the next step of "Letter before action" should it come to that. I hope it doesn't!

I'm not sure if the dealer is a company or a sole trader - there's "company" in the name, presumably that means so? I'd rather not name names right now! I like to think the best of people and there is an opportunity for this to be put right before going any further!

Thanks again for all your help. I will keep you updated. 14 days and counting!!!

[des8]

Re: (Yet Another) Used Car problem - after 30 days, but before 6 months period

You can check on their status for free here: https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company