Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

[jamandar]

Our house suffered extensive damage by a lightening strike last year. Insurance co appointed surveyor who appointed builder. We had an oral agreement with the builder that double glazing would be installed even tho it didnt form part of the insurance claim because there "was plenty of money in the job to cover windows". On that basis, naievely, we pushed for him to get the job.
Now six months after we have moved back in the builder has billed us for the windows and threatening to take us to Court.

We had no estimates, signed no contract or had anything to do with the windows. They were installed by a local company and the builder paid for them (eventually).

If this goes to Court and we are relying on verbal agreements only, what would be the likely outcome?

[ostell]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

I would say that you are between a rock and a hard place. You have conspired with the builder to defraud the insurance company and the builder is now taking advantage of that and billing you for the double glazing knowing that it would be awkward if you complain.

Did you have double glazing initially? Did you windows need replacing because of the damage?

[jamandar]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

No the windows did not form part of the claim. But the builder offered to replace them as a "sweetener" to get our backing to get the job.

There has been a catalogue of disasters concerning the builder and our Building Control officer has advised we take him to Court but we just want this nightmare over with.

Can he take us to Court without any signed contract or any paperwork concerning the windows?

[des8]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

The builder might be threatening to take court action, but realistically is it likely?
If he does, as Ostell implies, you cannot use "we was defrauding the insurance co" as a defence.
But on the other hand he has to prove you contracted with him to install the double glazing, and if nothing is in writing that might be difficult.
He won't be able to refer to any such conversations as a proof!
Presumably the insurance company had agreed a price for the job prior to the builder offering to include double glazing.
If that is the case there is no defraud taking place.
Perhaps he misunderstood a conversation you had with him, and installed them thinking that was what you required when you were only making enquiries.
In that case no contract!
A competent tradesman would confirm all such major works in writing with the client before proceeding.

Without knowing all the details more comprehensive advice is problematic, but I would be inclined to "wait and see".

[jamandar]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

Thanks - its been a total nightmare and im fairly sure that without some kind of written contract he cant sue us for non payment.

He has threatened us with this before when we questioned why the electrician he used to re-wire the house did not certify and notify the work - and still hasnt - he wont give us his name despite promising that he would.

We just want the work that has been done correctly notified and certificated and now we get this threat from him.

[seduraed]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

I don't think he will sue . You are better following the advice above and threatening to sue for failing to get the electrical work certificated. He's probably got a mate to do it for him who doesn't have the correct part p or whatever .

[jamandar]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

Yes he did the same with the new gas boiler - nothing had the right notification and certification - we have had to fight for everything - I appreciate all your comments and help - i am reassured.

[seduraed]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

have you had the boiler inspected ? It's most important that you do and the person doing it needs to be Gas safe registered for boilers ask to see their card and then check them on the gas safew register . I am only stating this as when I moved into the current address we neallry died from carbon monoxide poisoning . The inspector condemned the boiler as immediately dangerous.

[jamandar]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

A new boiler was installed and we were given a certificate - which my surveyor saw and was happy with. However I know that we should have a Completion Cert from Gas Safe so i rang the guy who gave us the Cert and he informed me that he didnt install the boiler, he just carried out a safety check. When i explained the situation he offered to come round and check the installation for mine and his peace of mind. He did and said it was a good job and notified it - he appreciated it could get him into trouble but felt sorry for me - so i now have a Completion Certificate.

Its just a whole mess and no- one seems to be on our side. And now this builder who has broke every rule in the book wants to take us to Court for windows that the insurance paid for!

[des8]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

Threatening court action is very possibly a scare tactic by a bully, and to be ignored unless you receive genuine court papers.
At that point a defence can be made.

As the insurance company authorised the work (presumably the electrical rewire was part of it), advise them that it hasn't been certificated.
Whilst you may have pushed for this particular builder, the instructions would ultimately have been given by the insurers.
They are the principals and liable for the failings of their agents (the builder).

[wales01man]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

If this went to court would the judge believe that the builder installed windows free of charge?
AS for the denial of a verbal contract one side would be believed would this be the OP or the builder?

[meellis]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

My question would be who paid for the works and hence who had a contract with who. Did the insurance company instruct and pay the builder direct or was there a case of estimates and the insurance company released funds to the op and the op paid the builder?

[jamandar]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

Thank you - i have informed the surveyor that the partial re-wire hasnt been certificated but he is of the opinion that because it is a partial re-wire, the Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate we have is all we need - but does this not have to be notified to NICEIC so a Completion Cert can be issued?

[meellis]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

I would have thought that NICEIC website would have a list of the scope of works that would need to be registered or at least tested and certified. Certain rooms, kitchens for instance generally need certification.

[des8]

Re: Builder billing us for job that was part of insurance claim

I would agree that the Electrical Installation Certificate is all that needed to be issued.
This is the first mention we have had on this thread that op was in possession of said certificate.

You can check here that the issuer is competent and registered: www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk
The certificate should be signed.