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Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

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  • Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

    It is really, really good news today to see some early warnings being issued of the FCA’s intentions, to be extremely active in their approach to potentially harmful lending; in this case their focusing on Payday lenders:


    ‘The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has proposed that all borrowers should have an "affordability" check before being given a loan…Martin Wheatley, the FCA's chief executive, said: "Today I'm putting payday lenders on notice: tougher regulation is coming and I expect them all to make changes so that consumers get a fair outcome. The clock is ticking."’ (BBC News, online).



    I think we are now ripe for a new public entity which unites all those, and there are very many we are aware, who are survivors of debt. We need a to consider uniting under one universal banner – don’t laugh: Survivors Of Debt United (S.O.D.U).

    The platform of SODU would be to raise awareness of the true nature of debt; the traps which ensnare, the manipulation that follows and, in so many cases the outright theft and asset stripping that consequently takes place. It could also detail the lasting harm in emotional terms which invariably come into existence. We need a strong public face, almost along the lines of the very, very respected organisation SANE. What do you all think?



    So often I have asked myself, why is it, in general, so little sympathy exists for those who experience debt, so little sympathy for much of the fear, distress and destruction which can and does follow when debt happens. Within my own family, a sibling made it quite clear, when I opened up to them about my, then (what was for me) a substantial level of ‘indebtedness’ – I was viewed as ‘foolish, irresponsible and could only blame myself for my predicament’.



    My story is not unique; the detail may vary, but overall we will all, on this site, see patterns we might recognize. I fully accept that some may say ‘ah…but your choices were your choices…’ well, maybe. Choice though can become limited at times and subsequently options shrink. It is the circumstance that counts. Every time.


    It is almost like a set of ingredients can be found. Marriage, debt, accommodation, debt, children, debt, education, debt, redundancy, debt, higher prices, debt, falling income, debt, increased taxation, debt, less state provision, debt, mental health issues, debt. Pretty endless, I suppose once it all starts.


    Certainly, in my case, access to money was quite literally delivered through my door – ‘you have especially been selected for XXXX credit card just come along to the branch (very nearby) and collect your card. No application, no effort on my part just advised it awaited my calling in and picking it up. Which, well, I promptly did. And, guess what? My card sat among many, many others awaiting other ‘specially selected’ people (I was already in deep debt at that point, perhaps that was why I was ‘special’).



    Anyhow, between the late 1990s and current day we (myself and my O/H became entrapped in the spiral of debt and much of the awfulness that follows by association.



    The thing is, debt, to be in debt, to be hounded by debt collectors, and all that goes with this remains, even today, something not openly discussed or, in any way properly understood at least in my experience.


    Much of the suffering which comes from debt is done often in a lonely isolation (I do not include this site in such description since LB is awash with support). It is how we have been conditioned over the years. Debt and blame culture can be rife – ‘you caused your own problems yourself’ – but this is often, so very far from the truth.



    I hope Mr Wheatley’s clock, above, is an alarm clock and that the bells on it are extra, extra loud!
    "...And I thought Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley were dead and buried."
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

    Hi,

    Thanks for that post - it makes an interesting read, and I share your joy that Payday lenders may finally get called to some sort of justice - the devil will be in the detail as always.

    Do you mind me asking, as you've been so open about your debt problems, how did you get out of them?

    I know there are various ways, and things were easier back when you are talking about. I'm not looking to judge, I'm interested (or nosey lol)!

    The ways I can think of are:

    Run away from it and keep moving around

    Organise a DMP

    Bankruptcy

    Go the Unenforceability route until Statute Barred

    Ignore and wait for it to go Statute Barred hoping nobody does anything in the meantime

    Sell up your house, repay and start again

    ........ to name just a few.

    How did you manage it?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

      Originally posted by labman View Post
      Hi,

      Thanks for that post - it makes an interesting read, and I share your joy that Payday lenders may finally get called to some sort of justice - the devil will be in the detail as always.

      Do you mind me asking, as you've been so open about your debt problems, how did you get out of them?

      I know there are various ways, and things were easier back when you are talking about. I'm not looking to judge, I'm interested (or nosey lol)!

      The ways I can think of are:

      Run away from it and keep moving around

      Organise a DMP

      Bankruptcy

      Go the Unenforceability route until Statute Barred

      Ignore and wait for it to go Statute Barred hoping nobody does anything in the meantime

      Sell up your house, repay and start again

      ........ to name just a few.

      How did you manage it?
      I don't mind you asking, at all. I have read many of your posts and you have my respect; your multitude of posts are extremely supportive to all of us.

      A DMP was entered into. At the time (in excess of £30,000 owed) I wanted to enter bankruptcy but but my OH took control, saw citizens advice and the result was a DMP. I went into some sort of mental decline sought help and got help. Back continue to dip in and out of the very dark places depression can take you. But am not the same person I once was and i doubt ever will be.

      We are not yet anyway out of the woods. But are now in the process of really engaging, using legislation now, to retake control from the hands of 'lenders' and DCAs.

      I do not, ever, advocate avoiding repaying what you owe. BUT, having lived the experience of trying to do the right thing I have been really fully initiated into a world which, in my view, is pretty rotten to the core (many years of research and experience).

      In effect, once your details enter the world of debt and debt collection an 'electronic tag' is attched to you - I am not exaggerating and is no different in essence to a form of open prison. Wrong.....very wrong and has to change. And the ICO?, FSP? etc been there done that. They are simply overwhelmed - and that speaks volumes.

      However!!!! The FCA are, I AM CERTAIN, going to prove a very different breed, this lot will have teeth and they will be biting - very confident on this. Hence there ought to be a united and national voice for such as Survivors of Debt - i.e. one credible voice speaking to another.

      Finally,any DCAs or other such unwelcome types sticky there long unwelcome noses in here understand this: justice, ultimately, will prevail. Tick Tock.
      "...And I thought Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley were dead and buried."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

        Great post and I am pleased you are getting there, or at least in a better place than before.
        I do so hope you are right about the FCA and they will use what ever powers they have to help us all have fair and transparent financial dealings.
        So much in the past has been regulations that were never quite to the point and then also the dreaded guidelines which could be taken any which way you choose and very rarely on the side of the consumer.
        Thanks for that and good luck with all your future quests.
        Enaid x

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

          Thank you Enaid. You, yet another major poster on LB, are also to be thanked for such terrific support to us all! The FCA will engage in a way, which is long, long overdue. Brighter days are ahead.
          :tongue2:
          "...And I thought Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley were dead and buried."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

            Debt should not be like a suspended sentence there are many reasons people get into debt very few set out to get into uncontrolled debt.Its the way those chasing debtors work that needs changing as well as the availability of some to get so deep in for most of us getting out of the problem can be done 3 ways
            Pay it off
            fight it
            ignore it
            How we deal with it is our choice some like me will never repay what we owe I have no assets and no income now after all the debts become SB I will be debt free but I also lost everthing I had of monetary value but still have family their worth more

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

              I'm so glad I asked you the question, and thanks for answering it. The comments above are so true, and I hope many people on this site who are in debt and feel ashamed by it, or guilty for it, feel better for reading your post.

              I'm a bit like Wales - I lost everything, not in my case through doing anything untoward, but because I lost my health, lost my career and just couldn't afford to live anymore. I went through the horrors of debt collectors, bailiffs, losing my house, being physically sick every morning for fear of what the postman might bring. Dark, dark times with no light in the tunnel at all. Like you, it exacerbated a pre-existing health condition and that is something I will never regain properly.

              However, I'm still here, I'm totally non-materialistic, and value things that are important - family, friends, integrity etc... My whole outlook on life has changed as a result of what I went through, and I honestly wouldn't go back to having the money even if I had the choice. Sure, it would be nice to be able to afford to go out for a pub meal once in a while or something like that, but we can't, so we carry on and try to make the most of what we have.

              The message is life goes on. Debt is not a crime. It doesn't matter how you got into it really, as people make mistakes. If people borrowed too much, I blame the banks for lending it at least as much as the people for borrowing it.

              The way it can be written off, then sold on, and on, and on again is madness. That's why I spend so much time on this site, trying to help people avoid the horror of what I went through. The more of us that open up, and show there is life during and after debt, the easier it will hopefully become for those in that dark place now.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                Originally posted by labman View Post
                I'm so glad I asked you the question, and thanks for answering it. The comments above are so true, and I hope many people on this site who are in debt and feel ashamed by it, or guilty for it, feel better for reading your post.

                I'm a bit like Wales - I lost everything, not in my case through doing anything untoward, but because I lost my health, lost my career and just couldn't afford to live anymore. I went through the horrors of debt collectors, bailiffs, losing my house, being physically sick every morning for fear of what the postman might bring. Dark, dark times with no light in the tunnel at all. Like you, it exacerbated a pre-existing health condition and that is something I will never regain properly.

                However, I'm still here, I'm totally non-materialistic, and value things that are important - family, friends, integrity etc... My whole outlook on life has changed as a result of what I went through, and I honestly wouldn't go back to having the money even if I had the choice. Sure, it would be nice to be able to afford to go out for a pub meal once in a while or something like that, but we can't, so we carry on and try to make the most of what we have.

                The message is life goes on. Debt is not a crime. It doesn't matter how you got into it really, as people make mistakes. If people borrowed too much, I blame the banks for lending it at least as much as the people for borrowing it.

                The way it can be written off, then sold on, and on, and on again is madness. That's why I spend so much time on this site, trying to help people avoid the horror of what I went through. The more of us that open up, and show there is life during and after debt, the easier it will hopefully become for those in that dark place now.
                I also value your willingness to be so open about things which are so painful. Sharing publicly in this way I absolutely believe helps others - especially those new to such events in life - to gain, hopefully some perspective in their own set of testing times. That the current set up re debt, debt purchasing and all that is part and parclewithin this awful industry is, I agree with you, madness.
                Family however and integrity as you rightly point out is everything when faced with situations that are quite overwhelming. I look forward to my continuing reading of your very helpful posts which, for me certainly, always impact more deeply when knowing: here speaks someone who has lived, lost and yet is not beaten. Thank you, look forward to all you upcoming posts.
                "...And I thought Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley were dead and buried."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                  Originally posted by eyeoftheneedle View Post
                  So often I have asked myself, why is it, in general, so little sympathy exists for those who experience debt, so little sympathy for much of the fear, distress and destruction which can and does follow when debt happens. Within my own family, a sibling made it quite clear, when I opened up to them about my, then (what was for me) a substantial level of ‘indebtedness’ – I was viewed as ‘foolish, irresponsible and could only blame myself for my predicament’.
                  That happens everywhere, whenever people haven't experienced a certain situation, they just can't understand it. A relative of mine who claims never to have used credit other than mortgages, said he agrees with the approach taken in Dubai, where debt is a criminal offence and you go to jail for it!

                  As a debtor myself, and one who has chosen the unenforceability route, I could have shot him right there and then
                  (probably not very wise right in the middle of Sydney airport ) but I chose to take his comments with a large pinch of salt instead.

                  Originally posted by eyeoftheneedle View Post
                  My story is not unique; the detail may vary, but overall we will all, on this site, see patterns we might recognize. I fully accept that some may say ‘ah…but your choices were your choices…’ well, maybe. Choice though can become limited at times and subsequently options shrink. It is the circumstance that counts. Every time.

                  Certainly, in my case, access to money was quite literally delivered through my door – ‘you have especially been selected for XXXX credit card just come along to the branch (very nearby) and collect your card. No application, no effort on my part just advised it awaited my calling in and picking it up. Which, well, I promptly did.
                  No, your story is not unique, there are many of us in the same boat. Let's not forget that it was the financial institutions that were responsible for a lot of the debt problems we are seeing nowadays, and they were responsible in more ways than one.

                  First they were offering credit left, right and centre: loans, cards, mortgages, you name it. They were not doing this out of charity, but because that's how they make their money, at least part of it, on the retail banking side of things. It was all fueled by the bonu$ $y$tem, whereby people get a bonu$ based on their contribution to the bu$ine$$ over the past year, whatever your area. The higher the volume of money lent or credit awarded, the bigger the bonu$. This system doesn't take into account what happens next. If most of the people you awarded credit to, later default, they won't take the money back from your bonu$, in fact, in the financial $ector, it's customary for people to move on right after receiving your annual bonu$, usually in the spring.

                  The irresponsible lending, particularly where mortgages were concerned, eventually led to what was known as the Credit Crunch, brought about when millions of people, mostly in the US, defaulted on their mortgages at the same time. This was because they had been sold a mortgage which would have been unaffordable to them at standard interest rates, but they were offered very low, fixed rates for a period of time, normally 2 or 3 years, after which rates doubled or trebled. Because these borrowers were excluded from mainstream lending in the first place due to their income or credit record, they were not able to remortgage at better rates and ended up defaulting.

                  The banks and mortgage companies who offered such products knew what they were doing, which is why they re-packaged the subprime mortgages and re-sold them as securities to other companies who were not always aware what they were really buying. This is the equivalent of scavenging through the rubbish bins and using the food waste to make food products and re-sell them as fresh delicacies. Sounds disgusting? Yes, it was disgusting what they did!

                  Furthermore, banks such as Goldman Sacks, were selling these financial instruments to their own clients while at the same time betting against them by taking what's known as short positions. In the real world, this would be like selling you a box of chocolates laced with poison and then betting that you will be dead before the end of the year. Anyone else doing something similar would be behind bars!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                    good job im not in Dubai I would have got the death sentence,for my debts LOL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                      Originally posted by eyeoftheneedle View Post
                      However!!!! The FCA are, I AM CERTAIN, going to prove a very different breed, this lot will have teeth and they will be biting - very confident on this. Hence there ought to be a united and national voice for such as Survivors of Debt - i.e. one credible voice speaking to another.

                      Finally,any DCAs or other such unwelcome types sticky there long unwelcome noses in here understand this: justice, ultimately, will prevail. Tick Tock.
                      It would be nice but I won't be holding my breath... The Financial $ector plays a big role in this country's economy, more so than in many others. You have to wonder whether what's commonly perceived as inefficiency on the part of regulatory bodies is, in fact, done deliberately because no-one wants to upset the City!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                        Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post
                        That happens everywhere, whenever people haven't experienced a certain situation, they just can't understand it. A relative of mine who claims never to have used credit other than mortgages, said he agrees with the approach taken in Dubai, where debt is a criminal offence and you go to jail for it!

                        As a debtor myself, and one who has chosen the unenforceability route, I could have shot him right there and then (probably not very wise right in the middle of Sydney airport ) but I chose to take his comments with a large pinch of salt instead.

                        No, your story is not unique, there are many of us in the same boat. Let's not forget that it was the financial institutions that were responsible for a lot of the debt problems we are seeing nowadays, and they were responsible in more ways than one.

                        First they were offering credit left, right and centre: loans, cards, mortgages, you name it. They were not doing this out of charity, but because that's how they make their money, at least part of it, on the retail banking side of things. It was all fueled by the bonu$ $y$tem, whereby people get a bonu$ based on their contribution to the bu$ine$$ over the past year, whatever your area. The higher the volume of money lent or credit awarded, the bigger the bonu$. This system doesn't take into account what happens next. If most of the people you awarded credit to, later default, they won't take the money back from your bonu$, in fact, in the financial $ector, it's customary for people to move on right after receiving your annual bonu$, usually in the spring.

                        The irresponsible lending, particularly where mortgages were concerned, eventually led to what was known as the Credit Crunch, brought about when millions of people, mostly in the US, defaulted on their mortgages at the same time. This was because they had been sold a mortgage which would have been unaffordable to them at standard interest rates, but they were offered very low, fixed rates for a period of time, normally 2 or 3 years, after which rates doubled or trebled. Because these borrowers were excluded from mainstream lending in the first place due to their income or credit record, they were not able to remortgage at better rates and ended up defaulting.

                        The banks and mortgage companies who offered such products knew what they were doing, which is why they re-packaged the subprime mortgages and re-sold them as securities to other companies who were not always aware what they were really buying. This is the equivalent of scavenging through the rubbish bins and using the food waste to make food products and re-sell them as fresh delicacies. Sounds disgusting? Yes, it was disgusting what they did!

                        Furthermore, banks such as Goldman Sacks, were selling these financial instruments to their own clients while at the same time betting against them by taking what's known as short positions. In the real world, this would be like selling you a box of chocolates laced with poison and then betting that you will be dead before the end of the year. Anyone else doing something similar would be behind bars!
                        This post is truly magnificent, FP. I wish I'd written it! There are principles at stake here..dreadful injustices happening... the rich stealing from those who have minus nothing..and a political expedient that perpetuates all that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Accepting and understanding survivors of debt.

                          I will second that - I will never tire of reading your 'Idiots Guides to ........ Banking.' I have fractional reserve banking etched in my head from one of your last explanations - an absolutely brilliant insight into the industry from someone who used to work in it. Keep them coming!

                          Comment

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