DISCONTINUED: CCJ due to bank charges

[mimps]

hi there

i have been advised to post this here, I've already tried another forum - any ideas to help us please?

My son (aged 21yrs) lives with me and my husband. He has been unemployed since Feb 09.
He recently recieved a set of court papers out of the blue stating that Bryan Carter 'solicitors' (yes, we have read all about them) are claiming more than £3000 in 'debt' to the Nat West Bank.
Son has had a few problems recently, so I have been helping him write letters etc, and we have been in contact with CCCS too, through the PM on here and by telephone.
We were advised that since there has been no proof of this debt, he should contest it. He has asked BC's, they say they don't have any breakdown, Nat West have so far not sent any paperwork despite 2 phone calls and a letter......He has kept the court informed of his situation, that he cannot deny/accept the debt until he has proof of it's origin..but today a letter has turned up saying Judgement has been made in his absence!
Is this correct, they can hold the hearing without his knowledge?

Also, as this debt is probably made up of charges against an account he was never able to use (it had a fee to use it, but son never received cards etc, so left it.........) can he now reclaim the charges due to 'hardship' as he now has a CCJ?

I'm confused now, can anyone help please?


thanks


worried mum

[LuggerBugs]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Where exactly has this letter informing him of the judgement originated from? Has it come from the court, or has BC sent a letter telling him this?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that they have managed to obtain a judgement at all by default. From what you have said, it sounds as if you have kept fairly well on top of the situation, so I can't understand how a court date for a hearing would have slipped past you without you being aware of it.

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Hi Mimps,

Did you or your Son actually formally acknowledge the claim to the County Court.

Being in touch with them via telephone or letter is not good enough, you should have completed the acknowledgement of service paperwork that would have been sent with the original court claim.

Don't get too worried about matters, these things happen.

Please post up copies of the original court claim paperwork and any other correspondance you have received and we will go about seeing how we can assist.

Please remember to remove any personal identification information from any documents that you post up.

I suspect that we will need to get you to raise an application to set aside the judgement, the grounds of which we can decide once we have sight of the original paperwork.

Budgie

[mimps]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Where exactly has this letter informing him of the judgement originated from? Has it come from the court, or has BC sent a letter telling him this?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that they have managed to obtain a judgement at all by default. From what you have said, it sounds as if you have kept fairly well on top of the situation, so I can't understand how a court date for a hearing would have slipped past you without you being aware of it.

the judgement has come from the court itself!!

BC's rang on Friday 17th to tell him they had obtained judgement in their favour, and the paperwork from the court arrived yesterday - i can't believe they got it through either!

I thought at least the court would have informed him of a hearing date?

And it's gone through 'by default' apparently.........so has the option of rejecting it doesn't he?

Sorry for so many questions here, I'm so scared for him. A CCJ at aged 22 is terrible, and he's just been offered a job, but on terrible pay too. It'll take hime the whole 6 years to pay it off
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Hi Mimps,

Did you or your Son actually formally acknowledge the claim to the County Court.

Being in touch with them via telephone or letter is not good enough, you should have completed the acknowledgement of service paperwork that would have been sent with the original court claim.

Don't get too worried about matters, these things happen.

Please post up copies of the original court claim paperwork and any other correspondance you have received and we will go about seeing how we can assist.

Please remember to remove any personal identification information from any documents that you post up.

I suspect that we will need to get you to raise an application to set aside the judgement, the grounds of which we can decide once we have sight of the original paperwork.

Budgie

Yes, we filled the Acknowledgement of Service immediately, and sent a covering letter asking for an extension of the normal 14 days to get the paperwork from BC's or the bank!

I can't post the actual letters as have no scanner.

[Amy]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

When a court case is filed you are given 14 days to enter an acknowledgement and then (if you do this) a further 14 days to enter a defence. So really and truly this is what he should have done (and defended in full).

There has not been a hearing in his absence - there is simply a default judgment against him. A judgment by default simply means earlier steps in the court process have not been completed - as I have said above.

You should file an N244 to have the judgment set aside. Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance

[mimps]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

When a court case is filed you are given 14 days to enter an acknowledgement and then (if you do this) a further 14 days to enter a defence. So really and truly this is what he should have done (and defended in full).

There has not been a hearing in his absence - there is simply a default judgment against him. A judgment by default simply means earlier steps in the court process have not been completed - as I have said above.

You should file an N244 to have the judgment set aside. Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance

thanks for the form, Amy. I have to say though, I thought we were following the court process.

The court confirmed (by telephone admittedly) that an extension had been granted to get the information to submit a defence - an additional letter from us, to the court, asking for an additional extension crossed in the post it seems.

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

thanks for the form, Amy. I have to say though, I thought we were following the court process.

The court confirmed (by telephone admittedly) that an extension had been granted to get the information to submit a defence - an additional letter from us, to the court, asking for an additional extension crossed in the post it seems.

So that will be one of the key arguments in your N244.

In addition there is the possibility to argue against the original claim, once full details of their actual claim have been received. This will include a counter claim for the return of any charges that have been applied to the account.

It's not clear from your original posts whether this is for a bank account or a credit card. Am assuming it's a bank account?
What information was included with the NatWest's original court claim, how were their particulars of claim worded?

Budgie

[mimps]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

So that will be one of the key arguments in your N244.

In addition there is the possibility to argue against the original claim, once full details of their actual claim have been received. This will include a counter claim for the return of any charges that have been applied to the account.

It's not clear from your original posts whether this is for a bnak account or a credit card?

Budgie

sorry, is for bank account

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

What information was included with the NatWest's original court claim, how were their particulars of claim worded?

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Also there is no way that a court claim should have even been filed against you without your son having received paperwork from NatWest requesting repayment of any amounts owed. These should have been in the form of preliminary letters and a letter before action. Is it possible that your son received these letters and ignored them?

[Amy]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Normally, where Bryan Carter is concerned, he sends out a letter informing the debtor he has been assigned the debt and (sometimes) the very next day, files a court claim.

[mimps]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Also there is no way that a court claim should have even been filed against you without your son having received paperwork from NatWest requesting repayment of any amounts owed. These should have been in the form of preliminary letters and a letter before action. Is it possible that your son received these letters and ignored them?

There is every posssibilty of this having happened, unfortunately.

His last correspondence with the Nat West was a telephone call to them in Sept 2008 where he told them he would not be paying charges on an account he'd never used........


I need to explain I think...


He had a 'young persons' type account which he was advised (by Nat West staff) to upgrade to the 'Gold' type when he reached 18yrs of age. This was the one with the £12 monthly fee. He never received the debit card for this account, and despite numerous calls (I know he made these calls, it was in front of us all) it never turned up. They had continued to charge him the fee, and consequently O/D fees and interest. He (again mistakenly) had assumed that having had no contact for 12 months, that they had written it off.
This was going to be part of our defence when we got to the County Court. That the debt was in fact generated by the bank not, my sons' overspending.

We had also been advised by BC's that they couldn't provide any copies or even a breakdown of how this debt had been calculated - they have refused delivery of the letter requesting this............so were also going to use this as part of the defence.

This whole thing is a real mess - sorry if it's confusing to you guys - thanks for sticking with it so far.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Normally, where Bryan Carter is concerned, he sends out a letter informing the debtor he has been assigned the debt and (sometimes) the very next day, files a court claim.

My son actually received the court papers they day before the 1st ever letter from Bryan Carters

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

It's not confusing mimps, thanks for your explanations.

In fact it all looks very interesting.

One little area you could clear up though !!

Has your son never actually used the account for any transactions, did he not receive statements through the post or letters regarding the increasing overdraft? If he was actually using the account it would be impossible not to notice what was happening.

If he has never used this account and the balance has actually been built up from £12 monthly account fees and bank charges and interest then this is going to be a pretty remarkable case.

[mimps]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

It's not confusing mimps, thanks for your explanations.

In fact it all looks very interesting.

One little area you could clear up though !!

Has your son never actually used the account for any transactions, did he not receive statements through the post or letters regarding the increasing overdraft? If he was actually using the account it would be impossible not to notice what was happening.

If he has never used this account and the balance has actually been built up from £12 monthly account fees and bank charges and interest then this is going to be a pretty remarkable case.

Hi Budgie

He is sitting with me now, and he has never, ever used this account for any transactions. He did get statements initially, and he disputed each one each time.

He hasn't had anything in the way of statements from them in over 18mths.

[Budgie]

Re: help req'd - any advice please? CCJ due to bank charges

Excellent.

That's what I was hoping for.

OK, try not to worry about all of this, am pretty sure it can all be sorted satisfactorily.

Please can you try to scan in any documents that you have. I appreciate that you do not have a scanner at your home, but maybe a friend or neighbour would let you use their scanner to enable you to do this.

Once we have sight of documents we can assist further.

Rgds Budgie