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Waggle and van repossession

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  • Waggle and van repossession

    Hi all,

    Bit of a long one so bare with me

    We had a small ltd company that has gone into liquidation

    before the business failed we had 4 vans on a chattels morgage.

    We managed to clear the total amount for 2 of the vans.
    Approx 4 months later we arrived at work to find that the other 2 had been repossessed out of our yard. ( rented property)

    We were pretty ignorant about the law then, learning a bit more now

    In each van was approx £6k worth of equipment.

    This equipment has disapeared and the finance company doesnt know what has happened to it.

    By them taking this equipment it left us unable to undertake any work any therefore assisted with the closure of the company.

    My questions are :

    1) As we had paid off over half of the agreement , were they allowed to repossess without a court order ?

    2) I have been told that they were not allowed to take work tools, as they have taken these tools can we claim for the value of them?

    3) as we could not undertake any work with out these tools , can we claim for lost earnings?

    4) are they allowed to repossess these vans out of our yard?

    Thanks for reading this far , any help would be greatfully received

  • #2
    Re: Waggle and van repossession

    Hi waggledog,
    As I said in your welcome thread I am not the one who can help you with this matter.
    Here is some info on Bailiffs that may help you till someone comes along who can.

    Legal Beagles

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Waggle and van repossession

      To me it sounds like theft - the finance company deny having had the tools and they don't show in the paperwork or value of the judgment, so they haven't taken them to assist settlement of the debt. Its possible the bailiffs sent to collect decided to keep a little bonus.

      Also is this your case from last year ? Hope you don't mind me posting it here, it will help give you decent answer.

      HP reposession , chattels mortgage with personal guarentee.

      Initial Loan was for 25,330 for 4 vans

      Paying 792.75 a month ( due for 36 months )

      5 months 20 days into the agreement we sold 2 vans , paid them off by a card payment (£7500)

      Had made 15 months of payments as well as the £7500 lump sum

      The finance company didnt recalculate monthly payments or interest

      The finance company that took them back in the middle of the night .

      Nothing in writing. Only over the telephone.

      To rub salt in the wound , the finance company went to court to enforce the guaruntee and got a charge on my house but included the 2 sold and paid for vans in the judgement ....
      another thought as I type this , what does that do to the validity of there court obtained charge?
      Is that right?

      Have you had in writing that the finance company took the vehicles ?

      Also selling the vans while under the HP agreement still makes them under the agreement, unless the finance loans were all seperate the agreement was for the 4 vans which on default of payment they can reposess. As you had sold two, they couldnt reposess those and the £7500 paid would just have come off the total sum owed.

      Did you go to court to defend their claim and charge order?

      the original loan was £25k, on the finance agreement (do you still have a copy?) the total amount payable on the loan was £28600 ish? (36 months x £792) You paid off £19300 (15 months and the 7.5k) - do you know how much they sold the vans for? and how much was the judgment/charge for ?

      Anyway can you confirm all thats right.
      Last edited by Amethyst; 27th March 2009, 08:06:AM.
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Waggle and van repossession

        Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
        To me it sounds like theft - the finance company deny having had the tools and they don't show in the paperwork or value of the judgment, so they haven't taken them to assist settlement of the debt. Its possible the bailiffs sent to collect decided to keep a little bonus.

        The equipment is quite specialised , the last time the finance company were asked they couldnt say where the equipment was

        Also is this your case from last year ? Hope you don't mind me posting it here, it will help give you decent answer.

        Is that right?

        Have you had in writing that the finance company took the vehicles ?

        Yes , we do have it in writing

        Also selling the vans while under the HP agreement still makes them under the agreement, unless the finance loans were all seperate the agreement was for the 4 vans which on default of payment they can reposess. As you had sold two, they couldnt reposess those and the £7500 paid would just have come off the total sum owed.

        bit confused by this bit, we were informed that we could sell vans as long as we paid off the outstanding on the 2 , each one was listed seperately on the agreement but the there was only 1 agreement

        Did you go to court to defend their claim and charge order?

        No defence or attendance , was not very well at the time
        didnt really know what to do , didnt have any idea what they did may of been questionable

        the original loan was £25k, on the finance agreement (do you still have a copy?) the total amount payable on the loan was £28600 ish? (36 months x £792) You paid off £19300 (15 months and the 7.5k) - do you know how much they sold the vans for? and how much was the judgment/charge for ?

        we have no idea how much they sold them for , the charge also included other hp that we had with the company so they lumped it all together

        Anyway can you confirm all thats right.
        Cant find the original agreement at the mo but I do have a statement from them dated 07/11/2006 which states:

        credit facility fee of £200 paid on the 11/7/05
        1st repayment of 792.75 paid on 28/07/05

        As of the 06/11/06: arrears 792.75
        future rentals £15,855
        future charges 0
        Balance outstanding 16,647.75
        At this point we had not sold the 2 vans , it was a couple of weeks later that we sold them

        One reason we have not kicked up a fuss yet is that a debt management company that is assiting us with our overall debt ( 90k) said that as they were not shouting for payment we should leave them alone

        Hope that this makes things a bit clearer



        In the time of the statement they charged us 4 late payment fees , 3 @ £79 and 1@ £75
        Last edited by Waggledog; 27th March 2009, 08:39:AM. Reason: spelling and colour

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Waggle and van repossession

          The charge on your home, I assume was got under the personal guarantee - were there any installment orders/arrangements with this charge?

          If you can dig out the paperwork from the court/charge order that would be helpful - we need to know how much they claimed against you and if that claim was valid.

          When did the company go into liquidation?
          Were the other debts also under personal guarantee ?

          Originally posted by Waggledog View Post
          Cant find the original agreement at the mo but I do have a statement from them dated 07/11/2006 which states:

          credit facility fee of £200 paid on the 11/7/05
          1st repayment of 792.75 paid on 28/07/05

          As of the 06/11/06: arrears 792.75
          future rentals £15,855
          future charges 0
          Balance outstanding 16,647.75
          At this point we had not sold the 2 vans , it was a couple of weeks later that we sold them

          One reason we have not kicked up a fuss yet is that a debt management company that is assiting us with our overall debt ( 90k) said that as they were not shouting for payment we should leave them alone

          Hope that this makes things a bit clearer



          In the time of the statement they charged us 4 late payment fees , 3 @ £79 and 1@ £75
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Waggle and van repossession

            Re The charge on the house from this finance company - dont think there was any orders/ installments , if there we we havent paid any

            I will ask the debt adviser chappie for the details for the court / charging order , if i cant get them from him , where do i get them from?

            re company liquidation , these are the official dates
            Case Number:1 (of 1 cases)Case Type:COMPULSORY LIQUIDATIONOrder to Wind Up:25/07/2007Petition Date:18/05/2007Practitioner Release:25/07/2007Due to be Dissolved:28/03/2009

            Yes , all 90k were PG'd

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Waggle and van repossession

              It does depend on what your original contract stated about repossession in the event of non-payment. However, I would very much doubt that any legally enforceable contract could contain a clause that allowed for either a general or special lien against any goods held in the vehicles in the event they are repossessed.

              Regarding the fact that they should not have repossessed at all, that is a bit of a non-starter since they already have. I would not waste time pursuing that avenue unless you can demonstrate a clause in your particular contract that forbids this.

              If the finance company are not admitting that they have the tools, then calculate their value (and that should be their replacement value, as this is what you have lost) and issue a claim for them against the finance company. You might find that they locate them quite quickly if they receive a court claim for their value, plus costs and if you can accurately calculate it, loss of earnings since they "lost" the tools.

              Finally, they may have been trespassing in order to carry out the repossession, but again, this might be catered for in the terms of your contract. I have terms and conditions in my businesses that allow me or my agents to enter premises to repossess items that have not been paid for. Having said that, it may be an unfair term and therefore unenforceable, but if it is provided for for in the contract, you will have a harder time arguing against it since you will have agreed the contract including that term.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Waggle and van repossession

                hi , thanks for that
                if we are talking new cost for thed tools etc its approx 6k each van,
                the loss of earnings is a bit more difficult , our standard day rate wwas £400 a day
                how would i go about claiming loss of earnings ?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Waggle and van repossession

                  You need to calculate it, but is it reasonable that you will have worked every day?

                  The cost of the tools is simple, but the loss of earnings could be tricky unless you have a fixed contract stipulating a set amount of work. Did you have that? If not, then take a mean over the last few months prior to the loss of the tools and use that. Bear in mind, anything you state will be open to challenge and therefore must be provable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Waggle and van repossession

                    Re the loss of earnings, I suppose it ir what whould be concidered fair and reasonable ??

                    what length of time would be reasonable to claim for?

                    Even 1 day a week for 12 weeks per van would make a dent into the outstanding amount

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Waggle and van repossession

                      You are not supposed to make money out of this, merely recover what you have lost. If the court detects that you are viewing this as a cash-cow they will not allow your claim to progress. You can only sue for tangible loss.

                      Comment

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