Housing Benefit Overpayment invoice and demand for payment.

[slonie]

Good morning,

I received in the post an invoice from my L.A. regarding an over payment of housing benefit from 2010 that I have absolutely no recollection of. The second letter is a demand for payment giving me 7 days to pay the £768.59.

I phoned L.A. immediately to ask for more information and to inform them that this is statute barred and I would be disputing it.

They have asked me to send a request for information to their email address, which im happy to do, but now im at a loss as to what to do next. As you can imagine, im a bit taken back by this. Is there a standard form or template that I can send to them for information?.

I understand that statute barred means that the debt is unenforceable, however, at this point i dont even know what this housing benefit debt relates to.

They say that they conducted a fraud investigation and that i attended an interview under caution, but i dont remember ever having gone for an interview under caution.

Any advice or suggestions I would be greatful.

TIA

[Wylderose]

Hi Slonie. In order for you to have a housing benefit overpayment you must have been receiving Housing Benefit in the first place.

When did your Housing Benefit start and when did it end?

The usual reasons that people are investigated for fraud are Living together with an undeclared partner and his/her income, not reporting income changes with an "in work" claim, working and claiming JSA/ESA/IS etc.

If you were investigated for fraud and if the overpayment was deemed to be "fraudulent" - from interview under caution, then

1. You would have either been interviewed by the Department for Works and Pensions (Compliance team and or Fraud and error investigators)
2. You would have admitted whatever they deemed you to have done and probably made a signed statement
3. Accepted an Administrative Penalty or been prosecuted in court.

Only after the above has occurred, would an overpayment be deemed to be fraudulent.

When the original overpayment occurred you would have received a "Statement of Reasons" which would have set out the overpayment, the period it covered and how much the recovery would be (recovery from ongoing housing benefits). You would also have received an "underlying entitlements" letter giving you an opportunity to present "true circumstances" income or household changes that might mitigate and reduce the overpayment. You are given a limited amount of time to present this evidence, after that the overpayment becomes recoverable and you lose the right to request a Reconsideration and/or Appeal.

Assuming that your benefits did not end until very recently, this could have been quite a sizeable overpayment that was quietly recovering from your ongoing housing benefit, which would also mean that you would have to top up your rent payments.

If housing benefit only ended very recently, then the overpayment would automatically be sent for invoicing and recovery by other means.

As you have requested an explanation of what the overpayment related to and how it occurred, you should receive a further statement of reasons and an explanation by letter.

Whilst you could submit a Subject Access Request for the information, this may not be as fruitful as you hope as with the new GDPR regulations, most councils will have data cleansed information prior to 2011.

Hopefully they will get back to you soon

[slonie]

Hi,

I was getting housing benefit in 2010, it probably started sometime around oct 2009, and must have ended in 2011 at some point.


I was ill at the time, and my recollections of that are vague, no paperwork from that time either to be able to verify.

I didnt have a partner, i wasnt fit for work, and the only income i was getting was esa (non work group) and child support.

I havent had any benefits claims since 2011/2012

I will be interested to see the documents that they have, because i havent got any documentation at all for historic benefits. Will update when i know more. Thanks

[slonie]

Hi,

could someone take a look at this, and let me know if this is ok to send to the LA to request information relating to the alleged over payment of housing benefit.

"Benefits Section

21.8.2018

Re: Your invoice ***** (Account *******)


Dear Sir/Madam,




I received an invoice for £768.59, number *******, from yourselves on the 17^th August 2018.




I have no knowledge of what this invoice relates to, and therefore am disputing the amount owed, and do not admit liability to this debt.




The invoice is dated 20.1.2012, and the alleged overpayment of housing benefit for the period 12.7.2010 – 29.05.2011, would indicate that this debt is statute barred and is therefore legally unenforceable.


As I have no knowledge of this debt, I am requesting:


A copy of the Statement of Reasons including:

The start and end date of any housing benefit paid to myself.

A full statement of account.

A full breakdown of how this figure was reached.

A copy of the underlying entitlements letter

The date of the alleged interview under caution.

A full transcript of the alleged interview under caution.

A copy of any documentation that may have been signed.




I enclose a signed Subject Access Request letter to enable you to provide me with the information I am asking for.




Yours Faithfully,


Ms S J Lonie

Enc. "

Thanks in advance.

[Wylderose]

Okie Dokey - so your recollections of that time are vague because you were unwell and I can understand you not having any documentation as most people don't hang onto old paperwork.

Most people who are on ESA with Support Group, tend to be on it for quite some time, What happened to end your Housing Benefit?

Did you move away?

If a claimant moves away with no forwarding address and there is an outstanding overpayment, then what normally happens is that the debt is sent to sundry debtors with an autorecovery tick added to it so that if a future claim for benefits is made then, it will automatically pull back to the claim and start to recover again.

However if someone moves away and the debt is still outstanding after a year or so, the local authority must make every effort to trace the debtor through such means as DWP benefit checks, cross checking with other local authorities for existing or new Housing Benefit claims, experian checks etc. because the clock starts ticking on the debt, from the time that the overpayment is created and appeal rights no longer apply, This also applies if the debt is not acknowledged and repayments are not being made.

If the overpayment the local authority claim you owe has not been pursued by the local authority and they have not had any communication with you, either postal (to your correct address) or verbally, then your debt may well be statute barred.

However, the exception to this is if the debt is acknowledged to be fraud. Overpayments that have been acknowledged by the claimant to be fraudulent by interview under caution and subsequent statement of admission or prosecuted then becomes classified as fraud and the local authority/department for works and pensions will pursue it until it is recovered in full. It cannot be written off in a Debt Relief Order or under the terms of Bankruptcy.

You are best not making yourself ill over it until you actually receive the documentation from your local authority that gives you an explanation.

Hope this helps

[slonie]

Hi wylderose,

Thanks for your reply.

My housing benefit ended because i went back to work, sometime in 2011/2012

i didn't move away from the area, but i did move house, within the same local authority area, and have moved 3 times since, and the council have had all my addresses because i was paying council tax on the properties i moved to. and I havent changed my name either.

I have had no contact from the local authority regarding this alleged debt until now. Ive never needed a debt relief order or bankruptcy thankfully, but things did get pretty close for a while.

My concern is that this debt is over 6 years old. I posted the letter that im going to send to the local authority, where i state i do not admit liability to the debt and that i believe that the debt is statute barred. Am i right in thinking that if they have information or something signed from the interview, that because no payments have been made, then it is statute barred and unenforceable?

Also, does the letter look ok in principal, i dont think i have missed anything out.

Thanks

[Wylderose]

Slonie, Subject Access Request

You need to be requesting:

Copies of all claim notes and letters relating to the overpayment, to include requests for information, recordings of telephone conversations, claim suspensions and termination letters, plus any letters offering underlying entitlement.

The information requested also needs to include any documentary evidence and notes, plus any audio interview recordings, relating to the fraud investigation, plus any recalculation of your claim (if a claim is investigated for fraud there are separate notes kept)

Do not dispute the debt because you will be informed that your right to appeal it long since out of time, just ask for an explanation of how the overpayment came about.

Don't expect to have an answer within a week or two because working back through a claim is time consuming and is usually something that is done by someone in the management team, so done in date order and can take a little bit of time. In the meantime your overpayment should be put into a pending state and not chased for recovery.

With regards the time frame of your claim, you may find that if the Local authority has been diligent under the new GDPR regulations, data prior to 2011 may have been destroyed. However the claim notes will still exist, as should the letters sent to you. Once you have all this, make an appointment with the Citizens Advice Bureau an ask them to advise and help

[Wylderose]

I guess their assessors are a bit slack because, it takes me two minutes to track someone down via council tax.

[slonie]

Indeed, thats what is so confusing. When i have moved, they have always been informed. Anyway. I have altered the letter to read

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I received an invoice for £768.59, number ********, from yourselves on the 17^th August 2018.

I have no knowledge of what this invoice relates to, and therefore I am enclosing a Subject Access request, I would like a detailed explanation of how the overpayment came about.

I enclose a signed Subject Access Request letter to enable you to provide me with the information I am asking for. "

Then the SAR reads:

"Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to:


Overpayment of Housing Benefit – Account number *******: Please include:


Copies of all claim notes and letters relating to the overpayment, including:

• • • Requests for information.
    • Any recordings of telephone conversations relating to the above.
    • Any claim suspensions and termination letters.
    • Any letters offering underlying entitlements.
    • A copy of the Statement of Reasons.

Any documentary evidence and notes relating to the investigation.

Any audio interview recordings plus transcripts, relating to the investigation.

Any documents relating to any recalculation of the claim.

A full breakdown/explanation of how the invoice figure was reached.

A statement of account showing any payments made. "


Is that sufficient for the information that I need and it reads better, less antagonistic. Thank you for your help.

[Wylderose]

That looks pretty good Slonie.

You don't need to send a separate SAR. The letter itself can form this basis.

***********

"Dear Sir/Madam,

Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and GDPR Act 2018: Your claim reference/National Insurance Number and Name

I recently received Invoice 20/01/2012 in the sum of £768.59, number dated ######, relating to an overpayment for the period 12.7.2010 – 29.05.2011.
.
As you may appreciate a significant amount of time has elapsed and I have no recollection of what this invoice relates to, I am therefore requesting a detailed explanation of how the overpayment came about.

I am also requesting a hard copy of all information that you hold on me for the duration of my claim, whether electronic, paper based or recorded in relation to the administration of my claim and subsequent creation of the overpayment detailed in Invoice ######

The information that I am requesting includes but is not limited to:

• Any Requests for information made of me prior to the overpayment being created.
• Any subsequent claim suspensions and termination letters
• A copy of the Statement of Reasons.and any letter/letters offering underlying entitlement
• Any recordings of telephone conversations between myself and your staff relating to the above.
• All claim notes made by your staff that relate to the above overpayment

As I was informed by a member of your staff on (provide the date that you contacted them last week and name if possible) that the overpayment is "Fraud Related", I am also requesting copies of the following:

• Any documentary evidence, (notes, transcripts of interviews and proof of this alleged fraud)
• Any signed statements admitting fraud that were made by me in Interview under caution
• A statement of account showing any payments made after the overpayment was created.

Yours sincerely

**********

The fact that the letter contains Subject Access Request in the Subject Line, will mean that the request needs to be forwarded to either a team leader or an appeals officer to deal with so it will not be sidelined and it will not be farmed out in the normal workflow.


If you have an email address to send your request to, send it with a "read receipt". If you post it, send it with "proof of postage" so that you have a record of it.

Look for any documentation on your Local Authority website that relates to GDPR requests and with a bit of luck you should be able to find a timescale within which they have to respond. You might want to include that time frame in your letter.

Good luck

[MIKE770]

Note:- Benefits do not become Statute Barred!

[slonie]

Hi Wylderose,

Thank you so much for your help, I have sent off the letter with the request for information today, so lets see what comes back. Best Wishes.

[slonie]

Note:- Benefits do not become Statute Barred!

There are some types of debts which do not become statute barred at the 6th year anniversary. ... Benefit overpayments are caught by the Statute of Limitations after 6 years. This includes overpayments of income support, job seekers allowance, pension credits, housing benefit, council tax benefit and social fund loans.

[Wylderose]

Housing Benefit overpayments can remain in a state where they are not statute barred for many years.

For example: Overpayment is created and is NOT invoiced but is recovered from entitlement on a claim. Claimant states that he/she cannot afford the statutory £11.10/week so restricted recovery is reduced to say £2.50/week. 7 years later the claimant starts to work and the claim goes out of entitlement. The debt is then invoiced. Once the overpayment has been invoiced, the overpayment can be prevented from being statute barred by sending reminders of the overpayment to the "last known address" of the claimant that appears on the claim. This in effect shows that attempts are being made to recover the overpayment and thereby retains the local authority's right to prosecute in court.

However, Housing Benefit overpayments can become statute barred in that, once the overpayment is created, the claimant has essentially 13 months to make a successful appeal. After appeal rights have been exhausted the claimant is required to start repayment. At the time that the overpayment is invoiced because no other method of recovery is available to the local authority, the clock starts ticking.

If for any reason, no contact has been made with the claimant, (moved away - untraceable, left the country etc) and/or the claim is not chased up by the council then it is perfectly possible for the debt to become statute barred just like any other debt.

All this means is that you cannot then be taken to court by the local authority to obtain a judgement and CCJ against you. But because the local authority has it within their remit to recover debts by any means possible, this does not mean that they will waive the debt. They will and do recover it from ongoing entitlement if you make a further claim and if you are claiming benefits elsewhere, they will refer it to the DWP for recovery from your ongoing benefits or if you are working they will attach your earnings.