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PRA group (appealed) on limitation

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  • #31
    Re: PRA group lose on limitation

    what have I been saying for a long time now about DJs etc and legislation?? ummm =Treason

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: PRA group lose on limitation

      What would the scenario be if a debt owner didn't do anything for six years? Would the statute of limitation still apply?

      I get the point that this case affirms that the limitation period does not start until after a default notice has been issued. Theoretically a lender could wait 5 years 364 days before issuing the default notice and would then have six years from that date. But if no default notice was issued in the six year period, surely they would not be allowed to carry on after that?

      The scenario that they can still enforce after say 20 years can't be right?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: PRA group lose on limitation

        I'd guess it would be different for say a credit card vs a fixed term loan / HP as they terminate at the end of a certain period whereas a credit card wouldn't terminate until a default notice is sent and not complied with ?
        #staysafestayhome

        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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        • #34
          Re: PRA group lose on limitation

          If I have read this correctly, this judgement has harmed the consumer and definitely the LiP. While it was argued that unfair relationships could be used as a defence if the creditor did not default for a long time, how many LiPs would be able to argue this.

          All in all a terrible day for consumers

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: PRA group lose on limitation

            I have no doubt DCAs will try to quote or refer to this to mislead consumers or even other judges, but AFAIK there is nothing about this that prevents another judge on another day making a less loony decision (i.e. does not set precedent).

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: PRA group lose on limitation

              Nope, it's still county court - annoying though.

              BMW v Hart has been a thorn for ages so the issue needs sorting out, hopefully the further appeal will do that.
              #staysafestayhome

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                Originally posted by Nibbler View Post
                I have no doubt DCAs will try to quote or refer to this to mislead consumers or even other judges, but AFAIK there is nothing about this that prevents another judge on another day making a less loony decision (i.e. does not set precedent).
                I get that it is not a precedent just persuasive but when DCA's try to use it to confuse LiPs and quite possibly DJ's with less than stellar knowledge of consumer credit, it will make things more difficult - possibly even more so when they tread that fine line between fact and fiction and say it was an appeal judgement. OK I realise a judge worth his salt would want to know at what level this judgement was at but maybe not all judges are that meticulous.

                I think it is also the case that many claimants already argue that limitations start from the default date

                What it does reinforce is that only using a statute barred defence is going to be more difficult for now at least.Defendants need to be encouraged to use a full range of defences such as S77-79, DN's , assignments and anything else they can legitimately use. Lets just hope permission to appeal is granted and the appeal won- surely it is too important to be left alone

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                  Originally posted by warwick65 View Post
                  OK I realise a judge worth his salt would want to know at what level this judgement was at but maybe not all judges are that meticulous.
                  To be fair I doubt that there are too many judges that don't know a county court judgment when they see one.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                    Originally posted by EXC View Post
                    To be fair I doubt that there are too many judges that don't know a county court judgment when they see one.
                    Point taken but I do feel not all judges look at us (debtors) as having equal rights to creditors - after all 'we used the facility so we should pay it back' or well versed in CCA matters. I suppose what i am saying is, if they can use this as a persuasive argument against a LiP , I personally suspect some might . After all, they may not want to be stuck on one case all day when they have a long list to get through.

                    I am not questioning the integrity of Judges, just the real life pressures and gaps in their knowledge. A Judge can not be a master of all areas

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                      Originally posted by EXC View Post
                      To be fair I doubt that there are too many judges that don't know a county court judgment when they see one.
                      Indeed. Until a firm conclusion is reached, my main concern is that this decision will be used to mislead and coerce consumers in any pre-claim or pre-judgement interactions.

                      Even for the more litigious DCAs, getting people to pay up then is where the real money is.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                        Wasn't the ruling by a circuit judge who has greater authority than a mere DJ or DDJ- at least that is what the original tweet said

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                          Originally posted by warwick65 View Post
                          OK I realise a judge worth his salt would want to know at what level this judgement was at but maybe not all judges are that meticulous.
                          I think the top left would give it away, where it says IN THE COUNTY COURT AT CENTRAL LONDON, so if a judge were confused as to the level of the judgment then he shouldnt be a judge

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by warwick65 View Post
                          Wasn't the ruling by a circuit judge who has greater authority than a mere DJ or DDJ- at least that is what the original tweet said
                          A circuit judge sitting as a judge of the County Court is still a circuit judge in the County Court and as far as the decision goes, it carries as much weight in real terms as a DJ or DDJ decision really. Only if its a CJ sitting as a deputy High Court or High Court Judge does it make it more binding.
                          I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                          If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

                          I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                          You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                            Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
                            I think the top left would give it away, where it says IN THE COUNTY COURT AT CENTRAL LONDON, so if a judge were confused as to the level of the judgment then he shouldnt be a judge
                            Like one that falls asleep during submissions?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                              Originally posted by warwick65 View Post
                              If I have read this correctly, this judgement has harmed the consumer and definitely the LiP. While it was argued that unfair relationships could be used as a defence if the creditor did not default for a long time, how many LiPs would be able to argue this.

                              All in all a terrible day for consumers
                              It wasnt our argument, it was their QC who put that point forward, just to be clear, and we had no choice with this appeal, we won in the county court, they appealed, our hands were tied
                              I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                              If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

                              I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                              You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: PRA group lose on limitation

                                Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
                                It wasnt our argument, it was their QC who put that point forward, just to be clear, and we had no choice with this appeal, we won in the county court, they appealed, our hands were tied
                                Yes I understood all that- their QC used the unfair relationship to say we had enough protection anyway and I also understand that it was PRA that appealed.

                                All I was saying is that it is a bad day for debtors as the pendulum moves ever so slightly further towards the creditors side

                                Comment

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