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* SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

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  • #16
    Re: Business contract cancellation

    Hi, I've been googling Patient Direct ever since I realised I'd been scammed by them. So far we've paid 400, so nowhere in the region of your wife's payment - sorry to hear about that, Lynnzer.
    We were visited by the rep back in April. I think we must have been preocuppied or busy, being a new business so our recollections are a bit sketchy. We remember him telling us it was a special rate as they had a deadline to meet and only a few slots to fill, and that we could have a one year contract. We definitely signed some paperwork but can't find it, and believe he took it away with him.
    Two days ago I noticed our monthly payments were higher than expected, so went back to check the paperwork. I managed to find an email copy (which, I'm ashamed to say, I hadn't read, because I assumed it would be the same as what we signed). Anyway, the amounts on the contract were double what we remember being quoted, and the term had been extended to two years. The signature on the forms bears a passing resemblance to my signature, but is most definitely not mine as the letter formations are wrong - he has actually forged my signature!!!
    So far I've stopped further payments with the bank and reported to Trading Standards (who couldn't help due to fraud) as well as Action Fraud. Waiting to hear back from them but it could be some time. I'd love to get our 400 back, but more importantly I want to see these crooks shut down so they won't be able to keep taking advantage of small businesses like ours.
    Please keep us updated with how you get on. I'll post if I have any further developments.

    PS. I've phoned the rep a couple times and emailed him, asking for the original paperwork we signed (I want to see the one with my real signature on) and he keeps saying he's busy but will send it soon. I've emailed patient direct to let them know the contract is fraudulent but have heard nothing back from them either. What email address did you use to contact them?

    Thanks and good luck with everything

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Business contract cancellation

      Same thing. Missing copy of contract when he went.
      Total scam.

      PD is supposed to be part of Community Network which are trading names of Multimedia International Services (They didn't say which incarnation though as there are 3 of them.
      The only one still registered and not closed down is MIS Ltd but the significant owner of this is MIS Worldwide Ltd which was itself on the verge of being struck off, and only just escaped that by the skin of their teeth.

      Just search Companies House for the name and you'll see them all pop up.

      In fact, here's a few links I have saved:
      Directors: Angela Margaret DARNELL : David Ravenscroft-1 : David Ravenscroft : David Ravenscroft-2 : David Ravenscroft-3

      Companies: MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES LIMITED : MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES HOLDINGS LIMITED : MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES WORLDWIDE LIMITED :

      Shows as part of the MIS Group

      There's a deliberate attempt to make itself invisible by using a trail of trading names.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Business contract cancellation

        Just for information purposes I have attached the standard terms and condition of the contract.
        I have never seen such mish mash of stuff all designed to give them the rights to walk all over people.

        It pays to read these things before putting pen to paper. I believe my wife has learnt a valuable lesson but it's cost her dearly.

        Having said that, what do you make of clause 22?
        It seems to allow either party to be free from any remedy for an untruth which was relied on in entering the agreement.

        Perhaps that means that the actual acceptance of the contract by contractee can be reneged as an untruthful acceptance.

        I would be really keen to go down that route if the chargeback is rejected.
        Last edited by Lynnzer; 14th July 2017, 21:08:PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Business contract cancellation

          SUCCESS
          Chargeback amount just been received.

          For others that follow this thread or find it later as a result of a Google search for patient direct scam, then make sure you lay a similar trail of non compliance etc.

          Thanks to all who helped.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Business contract cancellation

            Well done, Lynnzer.

            I'll let [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] & [MENTION=332]EXC[/MENTION] know.
            CAVEAT LECTOR

            This is only my opinion - "
            Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
            Cohen, Herb

            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
            gets his brain a-going.
            Phelps, C. C.

            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
            The last words of John Sedgwick

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Business contract cancellation

              That's great news Lynnzer. Well done, lets hope that is the end of it for you now.

              So because I'm nosey....( and it helps others to know)

              What did the bank come back with ?
              Have they said the company have 30 days to 'appeal' it ?
              Have you heard anything at all from PD since ?
              Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

              “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Business contract cancellation

                Haven't heard anything from the bank yet.
                I just saw the deposit in my account today so perhaps I'll get notification this week on how they concluded this.
                From my memory though on a chargeback claim against my wife's business by a customer where there was no valid reason, they didn't make a chargeback without us having a chance to appeal

                I guess if they do allow an appeal and allow it, then they will try and take the payment back from the VISA Debit Card.
                If that's the normal procedure I'll empty my account first so they can't do it. Possible?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Business contract cancellation

                  Okay, I'd be careful for a little while until you have everything settled and confirmation in writing. Leave the money in the account ( as if it is reversed it will send you into an unauthorised overdraft and things could get difficult with charges etc... and sadly the bank won't worry about doing that at all.)

                  I might be tempted to inform the bank not to accept any further transactions from the same company - as your payment was made by the guy calling in they may have a note of the card details and attempt again.

                  Does the payment deposit show as being a chargeback ?
                  Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                  “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                  Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                    It just shows "Debit Card Services".
                    Has to be the chargeback though, and I haven't had anything in today's post.

                    Just to drop another link in here which may well be useful to others., here's a case against them in Australia which resulted in them being fined for $230,000.

                    Here's the case outcome

                    Australian B2B contracts are very different to those here. A small business is caught in the unavoidable trap of a contract that has been supposedly fully read and understood over here, and which often includes small print that most people don't BUT SHOULD read that amounts to an inferior deal for the contractee.

                    In Aussieland things are much different. Pity we can't press the Government to make some small business contract legislative exceptions over here.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                      Yip we believe that small business should be treated as a consumer, and have the same protections, when acting outside of their direct business area. ( ie. engaging advertisers / employment consultancy services etc etc ) I'll have a read of the Australian case, thank you.

                      Weird that the bank have just reversed the transaction without communicating with you. Let us know when you hear anything.
                      Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                      “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                        Still doing research on this mob.
                        Have also found them in New Zealand. Media Solutions Nz Limited


                        One of the infamous directors lives here. Angela Margaret Darnell
                        Must be dripping in money from scammed companies..

                        David Ravenscroft's home is registered as being on Patricks Avenue, Grand Cayman.

                        So that's where the money goes........
                        It also shows the Ultimate Holding Company for the NZ company to be Commonwealth Bank Of Australia. Seems likely they have a charge on the company

                        Here's another incarnation. Media International Holdings Ltd

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                          Just sent an email to Grahame Morris, our local MP.

                          Dear Grahame,
                          please find a pdf of a matter I would like you to consider raising in the House and perhaps instigating discussion for changes in law. Perhaps it can be printed out for consultation if needed.
                          -------------------------------------
                          PDF says:
                          Dear Grahame.
                          I wish to raise a matter that perhaps you can throw some weight behind. It relates to the trading situation of small companies and in particular their rights within a business to business contract.

                          I will outline an instance here before expanding on the problem, and potential solution to it.

                          My wife has a ladies fashion shop selling mainly special occasion ladies-wear and mother of the bride & groom outfits. She is good at what she does but her knowledge is restricted to the business sector she is in. She is not sophisticated and tends to take people at their word, so if a supplier promises something she expects that promise to be fulfilled without recourse to picking through contractual details on an order form.
                          Contract law is not something she has any clue about.

                          A few weeks ago, a director from an advertising company made a cold call into her shop whilst it was pretty busy with customers. He was selling advertising on TV screens in health centres etc. It seemed a good idea at that time and based on what she was told she went ahead and signed documents for the acceptance, ie a contract. She had no time to read the terms and conditions on the back, in small print, and as the sales person was pushy, she made a deposit of over 2000 for the first 6 months payment, to be followed by regular payments thereafter.

                          Following that visit,the contract copy could not be found anywhere in the shop and I have since found out from other affected retailers that this is a normal practice. They take the copy with them surreptitiously so as to prevent it being read. As there are discontinuance conditions within the contract a retailer would not know that a rollover contract for a further 2 years would result unless the cancellation was done as per the clauses in the contract.
                          Apart from that, the contract is diabolical, even having a clause (22) which effectively allows them to lie and misdirect a retailer without any comeback. A copy is attached which you may like to read.

                          I have since made a thorough investigation on Google of the company concerned and it is
                          mentioned as being a scam company. I have sufficient evidence to present to any court of their dodgy activities including forged signatures, increased prices on contracts etc.

                          Now, that explanation leads me to the gist of the problem.
                          The targets for these scam companies are small businesses. They tend to be much the same as my wife, and sign things when under pressure. The tears start later when they realise they have been scammed but can't do anything about it as a B2B contract doesn't make any provisions to allow redress for anything not within the contract. If the contract says there is no cancellation period then that's it. If it states that a non refundable deposit is required, then you pay your money and suffer the consequences.

                          An unsophisticated small business owner should be given the same treatment as a normal person within the Consumer Rights Act. I note that Australia has this within their own legislation and I see no reason why small businesses within the UK cannot be brought into a similar arrangement.

                          Considering that a person acting as a sole proprietor, or is a director of a company no larger than half a dozen people with a small turnover they should be treated in a totally different way to the likes of large businesses with a hundred or so employees and a large turnover which have recourse to business advice from their legal departments or solicitors.

                          Putting an expectation of Buyer Beware onto the shoulders of someone without legal knowledge, or who may even be limited in intelligence, as so many small business owners may well be, is disproportionate to the requirement of good faith contractual relationships.

                          In our own case I have a pretty good understanding of the legal implications of these sort of things and know that once a signature is placed on a B2B contract,it's as solid as rock. However I'm also astute in finding things about scams and I have a great number of points that I put together to make a chargeback of the deposit my wife paid on a VISA Debit card for 2000 which has been successful.

                          If you wish to avail yourself of the rundown on this company, from the perspective of seeing how a B2B contract on small business effects the targetted companies, then I have it posted on Legal Beagles website here.

                          The contract so you can see the profound absurdity and unfairness of the stated terms and conditions is available from this link
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Amethyst; 19th July 2017, 10:05:AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                            I just wanted to update on my progress so far.
                            Our bank has done a chargeback on the 2 monthly payments we made to Patient Direct. We haven't had our deposit back but hopefully if Lynnzer was able to get their deposit back this should be possible. Just very busy with other things at the moment and have already dedicated so much time to this on the phone to Trading Standards, Action Fraud etc

                            On Monday, Patient Direct responded to my email complaint. One of their "service managers" phoned me and was extremely aggressive saying things like "how dare you". Left me shaking after the phone call. The weird thing is the email she sent me afterwards and all subsequent emails seemed way more reasonable and I wonder if this is so I would be disbelieved if I said she was very rude and aggressive?

                            Their email response says they had a full written report from the agent who said he told us he could let us pay a 3 month deposit as we couldn't afford more (untrue- our cashflow is good and paying a smaller deposit would in no way sway us into signing a long contract)

                            They also said they do not offer 1 year contracts so there is no way our contract could have been for a year.

                            She said my signature might look different because it was signed on an Ipad. I can't remember whether I signed on an Ipad or not but all I know is there was definitely a piece of paper involved as I am sure I remember the agent filling in a box on a form, with a pen, to say 30 seconds. They have been unable to produce a copy of the piece of paper I remember. I believe the paper would have different terms on it to what they claim we signed up to.

                            I know they might send bailiffs to chase their money. Am I right in thinking this is illegal? Can I phone the police if they do come? I am likely to be alone in the shop and will find it extremely intimidating if they do turn up, not to mention the embarrassment of it happening in front of customers. I know I'm getting ahead of myself but I just want to be prepared with the facts so I can try to be a bit strong.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                              Originally posted by Lynnzer View Post
                              Just sent an email to Grahame Morris, our local MP.
                              Great email, do let us know what he comes back with.
                              Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                              “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                              Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

                                Originally posted by patientdirectscam View Post

                                I know they might send bailiffs to chase their money. Am I right in thinking this is illegal? Can I phone the police if they do come? I am likely to be alone in the shop and will find it extremely intimidating if they do turn up, not to mention the embarrassment of it happening in front of customers. I know I'm getting ahead of myself but I just want to be prepared with the facts so I can try to be a bit strong.
                                They couldn't send bailiffs unless they went to court and obtained a Court Judgment against you first - that wouldn't happen as you would defend the claim ( and win IMO ).


                                How to the terms they have presented to you compare with the paperwork Lynnzer posted - http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/PDTerms.pdf ?

                                Good news on the chargebacks you've won so far.
                                Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                                “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                                Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                                Comment

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