VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

**R0b** · 23rd November 2016, 21:13:PM

Re: VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

Hello [MENTION=94515]Natz321[/MENTION]

They have replied today stating that if I do not sign the Assessors documents, that they will not take the car and they will charge me a fee of £150 to cancel the termination. They also directed me to the BVRLA guidelines for wear and tear and attached a copy, which does sound like it applies to consumers, although I read on this website that it does not. (I found a web page from the Ombudsman referring to the BVRLA?? - http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...ar-finance.htm under "79/05 - consumer disputes repair bill after returning car at the end of three-year lease period")

To answer the above question, the complaint in question related to a consumer hire agreement, which means at the end of the hire period the car is returned back to the lease company to be used again, you do not get VT rights under a consumer hire agreement. The BVRLA is predominantly used for leasing and fleet services, where the car is hired (long term or short term) and the guidelines reflect what state the car should be in for a reasonable condition for that particular industry. The legislation says reasonable condition, and it is arguable that the standard under the BVRLA guidelines is a much higher standard than reasonable condition. For example, there are other guidelines such as the CAP guidelines which would reflect better towards private sales as you can see here http://www.cap.co.uk/media/2354/caphpiconditions.pdf

The BVRLA guidelines does not however, appear take into account the age of the car.

As for the rest, you are not legally obliged to sign the assessor's documents, once you have given notice to VT, they cannot then 'cancel' the agreement as it is already terminated. You do not need to pay the 500-600 first before cancelling your DD, you can cancel your DD and then pay by cheque or bank transfer (if you pay by card they may take more money which is a hassle getting back - if you do pay by card, I would suggest you record the call on your phone and confirm how much you are paying an if they charge more then you have evidence which supports your case and you can claim for fraud and additional damages if you issued a court claim).

Your response seems fine just be aware if you SORN you should wait for confirmation from the DVLA before you uninsure because if it gets picked up and your still registered you could be held responsible.

Finally, they can't charge any shortfall, if they choose auction then it's their prerogative, they have other means of selling it but if they choose not to try and obtain a higher sum thats their fault, not yours

**Natz321** · 24th November 2016, 12:05:PM

Re: VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

Thank you for your reply!

Firstly, I need to point out that I was incorrect regarding the HP contract; it is a Conditional Sale Agreement if that makes any difference?

Looking a the CAP guidelines you supplied, my car would fall well within the 'Clean' category for an 8-9 year old vehicle. But not within the BVRLA guidelines that don't take account of age!

I have now paid the remaining balance and cancelled the DD. Unfortunately I did pay by bank card over the phone but they have so far only taken the £557 that I had to pay up to the 50%.

If the Assessor comes out and I don't agree with their charges for damage (if any - it could be £1, it could be £1,000, how am I to know?!) they won't take the car and they say they will 'cancel' the termination. When I called to pay the balance, I reiterated that the Assessor could come out, but that I wouldn't be cancelling the VT, so they should take the vehicle but that I would not be signing anything other than the condition REPORT if necessary. They said that if I won't sign anything, then they won't send the Assessor... Round in circles... They said that if I was asking them to send the assessor over the phone, then that is my agreement to pay the £150 fee if it becomes necessary! To date, I have not heard from the Finance Company or Assessor about arranging a date to assess/collect the vehicle...

Their last email states:

"Just to clarify once you have paid up to half of your agreement which you have stated you wish to do then if a loss is made at auction for your vehicle we wont look to recover the shortfall from yourself as you will have paid your liability, the inspect and collect is only for damage over and above fair wear and tear which must be signed for if you agree, the cancellation charge will only be applied if you decide you don’t agree with the costing for any additional damage on the vehicle one the job has been allocated to the agent not for the termination itself, because we have advised and made fully clear what is classed as reasonable condition you will have a good understanding if your vehicle has additional damage listed in the BVRLA guide I attached earlier.

You can refer to your terms and conditions under sections 4.1 and section 8 which states you can hand the vehicle back in good reasonable repair and condition we do have the right to reject your voluntary termination should it not come under the BVRLA guidelines "

s4.1 states: You must maintain the goods in good and reasonable order and condition at your expense. You are responsible for all loss of or damage to, the Goods, excepts for any due to fair wear and tear.

s8 states:
8: On Termination of this Agreement:
8.1: your right to possession of the Goods immediately terminates, you will no longer have possession of the Goods with our consent and we may, subject to 'repossession: Your Rights' overleaf, retake possession of the Goods.
8.1.2: You must return the Goods to such address as we may specify, together with any registration document, tax disc, MOT certificate and any other documents of title.
8.1.3: You must pay us forthwith:
a. all repayments which are in arrears and all other sums which have accrued, and
b. damages for any breach of obligation by you prior to termination of this agreement relating to maintaining the Goods in good and reasonable repair and condition; and
c. by way of compensation for loss and/or liquidated damages for breach of this agreement, the outstanding balance of the Total Amount Payable plus all expenses incurred by us in respect of the storage, insurance, tracing and recovery of the Goods, less (i) the net proceeds of sale if the Goods are repossessed and sold, within 3 months of the date of termination or if repossessed but not sold, their value at the expiration of the said period of three months as determined by a dealer appointed by us who deals in similar goods on the basis of a sale to traders of the Goods and (ii) on payment, any rebate of charges to which you are entitled under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 plus our reasonable legal costs.

I've carefully read through the whole agreement and no mention is made of the BVRLA guidelines or of a £150 'termination cancellation fee', nor does it state that they can reject my VT should it not come under BVRLA guidelines.

So what would be the best course of action from here? Should I chase them up on a date for the Assessor, or just SORN the vehicle and return the V5 after the 14 days are up?

Am I still correct in not signing any agreement before they take the vehicle? And am I within my rights (if needs be) to reject the cost of any 'above wear and tear damage' that they might want to charge and NOT pay the £150 fee?

I've been looking at the V5 also and it appears that the new keeper (private or trader) needs to sign the V5 to transfer the vehicle - how do I go about sending in the V5 due to this?

I've also spoken to Citizens Advice who could not help and who directed me to the FOS; who said that they could not help because I wasn't making a compliant. They directed me to the FCA but I haven't tried them yet. Both told me that I should request the Finance Company's complaints procedure if I feel that I have not been treated fairly, which I have found online, but I don't know whether I have a complaint yet?

Thanks again!

**R0b** · 24th November 2016, 13:42:PM

Re: VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

You could go back to them and query where in sections 4 and 8 does it state that if you fail to comply with the requirements then they have the right to reject the VT? In any event it is a statutory right so any clause which contradicts that position is invalid.

As for your options, you can go down the 14 days route of non insuring and DVLA, or there is another option which seems to be working recently and that's by threatening to sell the car if its not collected within 28 days. You can find a template on post #34 here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...torts+wrongful

If you go with your original option then you can notify the DVLA online by going here https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle and in fact you could do that now.

There is also no harm putting in a complaint but perhaps you could respond to the above using whatever your method and then a separate email making the complaint which sums up everything to date, including false and misleading information saying that there is £150 charge and they have the right to reject the VT under clauses 4 and 8. the complaint will start with the lender and then if not satisfied follow up with the Financial Ombudsman

**Natz321** · 7th December 2016, 11:59:AM

Re: VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

Hello again!

Following on from my previous notes, Close Brothers Finance had until Friday 2nd Dec to contact me to collect/'assess' the car which was the 14th day since my VT, however they have not been in contact.

I therefore called them on Friday 2nd and they said that as I had said in my original VT letter that I wasn't going to sign anything, they had pretty much 'cancelled' the VT, which I know they cannot do, so they requested me to send them another VT letter. I therefore emailed them on Friday 2nd saying that the agreement had now been terminated for 14 days and that I expect them to contact me within the next 7 days to collect; however today they have replied stating that they want another SIGNED VT letter.

I don't mind doing this to move forward, although I feel like I shouldn't have to and that they are making me jump through hoops (which I don't need at 34 weeks pregnant!!), but I want to be careful what I write on the signed letter. I haven't made a complaint yet as I'm reserving this as I don't think we're at the end of any complaint I may have yet...

I want to send them a signed letter, this time saying that the VT was cancelled on 18th November and giving them 7 further days to collect the vehicle, rather than saying it is VT'd from today/immediately again. I then want to SORN/uninsure & transfer V5 in 7 days if nothing is done as I've had quite enough now and it is costing me over £50 per month in tax and insurance, however the problem I have is that I have no space on my drive to store it anymore and I live on a busy main road so if parked on the road the car could get damaged. I have therefore parked it on my in-law's drive 60 miles north from me where it is safe.

Would I be best to leave it there while it is sorned and tell the Assessor to collect it from there (I would arrange to be there with the Assessor)? Or should I bring it home and park it on the road? Alternatively, Close Brothers Finance has an office only about 12 miles from my house, I was thinking of parking it in their car park and posting the vehicle documents through their door? What would be best? I assume it would be best to put this in the 'second VT' letter.

Thank you,
Natz321

VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

VT: Finance sending assessor, cancellation charges if I don't sign

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